[MERGED]-Debmey: SHOW PROOF THAT PROPHET MOHAMMAD IS A PAEDOPHILE?

Png_Prince

Btw debmey, u havent revealed ur sect here. Dont feel ashamed laa.. Tell us la what sect u r in ?

Debmey

like i said, no sect, just Christian.

Png_Prince

Dont feel ashamed debmey. Christianity got many sects. Just tell. Dont feel ashamed.

Debmey

Me ashame? I have no idea what you are talking about sir. I just don't belong to any sect sir.

I think you are obviously ashamed of Mohd's paedophilia. Thats why you need so desperately try to detract from the issue.

BTW, I read your hadiths, it does not say anything about Aisha's age.

cheers

Png_Prince

Haha, in denial as usual ? U r catholic or protestant ? Which one ?
If u cant read the hadith, that means u r blind. Hahaha, u cant prove beyond doubt here.

cheers

Debmey

I read your hadiths, they made absolutely no mention of Aisha's age at all. And both you and fuzzy failed to back up your claims concerning those verses.

I'll show you real hadiths that clearly affirms Mohd's paedophilia.

Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3310:
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)' Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88


Finally, thanks for keeping up this thread sir.

Png_Prince

Originally posted by Debmey at 30-5-2007 06:23 PM
I read your hadiths, they made absolutely no mention of Aisha's age at all. And both you and fuzzy failed to back up your claims concerning those verses.

I'll show you real hadiths that clear ...

Open ur eyes and use ur brain. Btw which sect u r ? Catholic or Prostestant ? Dont be ashamed debmey. Tell us if u r proud. If u r ashamed then dont tell.

According to another narrative in Bukhari (kitabu'l-tafseer) Ayesha (ra) is reported to have said that at the time Surah Al-Qamar, the 54th chapter of the Qur'an, was revealed, "I was a young girl". The 54th surah of the Qur'an was revealed nine years before Hijrah. According to this tradition, Ayesha (ra) had not only been born before the revelation of the referred surah, but was actually a young girl (jariyah), not an infant (sibyah) at that time. Obviously, if this narrative is held to be true, it is in clear contradiction with the narratives reported by Hisham ibn `urwah. I see absolutely no reason that after the comments of the experts on the narratives of Hisham ibn `urwah, why we should not accept this narrative to be more accurate.

i.e. "Ayesha (ra) said: I was a young girl, when verse 46 of Surah Al-Qamar, [the 54th chapter of the Qur'an], was revealed. (Sahih Bukhari, kitabu'l-tafsir, Arabic, Bab Qaulihi Bal al-sa`atu Maw`iduhum wa'l-sa`atu adha' wa amarr)

Debmey

There is no evidence to show that Sura 54 was revealed 9 years before hijrah.

Did you claim earlier that Aisha was born 6 years before hijrah? Aren't you now contradicting yourself?

You see, what you have brought are claims, no proofs or evidence.

What is clear proof or evidence is something like this.

Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3310:
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)' Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88

Png_Prince

Haha, if u want to show primary source, quote from Quran, i will believe. The hadiths u show contradicts by bukhari himself coz these are hearsays not word of god.

According to another narrative in Bukhari (kitabu'l-tafseer) Ayesha (ra) is reported to have said that at the time Surah Al-Qamar, the 54th chapter of the Qur'an, was revealed, "I was a young girl". The 54th surah of the Qur'an was revealed nine years before Hijrah. According to this tradition, Ayesha (ra) had not only been born before the revelation of the referred surah, but was actually a young girl (jariyah), not an infant (sibyah) at that time. Obviously, if this narrative is held to be true, it is in clear contradiction with the narratives reported by Hisham ibn `urwah. I see absolutely no reason that after the comments of the experts on the narratives of Hisham ibn `urwah, why we should not accept this narrative to be more accurate.

i.e. "Ayesha (ra) said: I was a young girl, when verse 46 of Surah Al-Qamar, [the 54th chapter of the Qur'an], was revealed. (Sahih Bukhari, kitabu'l-tafsir, Arabic, Bab Qaulihi Bal al-sa`atu Maw`iduhum wa'l-sa`atu adha' wa amarr

Png_Prince

Btw debmey, why so ashamed to tell abt ur sect. Simple catholic or protestant. Dont be ashamed here debmey.

Debmey

Haha, if u want to show primary source, quote from Quran, i will believe. The hadiths u show contradicts by bukhari himself coz these are hearsays not word of god.

Really? So why do you Muslims have to follow teachings in the hadiths?

According to another narrative in Bukhari (kitabu'l-tafseer) Ayesha (ra) is reported to have said that at the time Surah Al-Qamar, the 54th chapter of the Qur'an, was revealed, "I was a young girl". The 54th surah of the Qur'an was revealed nine years before Hijrah. According to this tradition, Ayesha (ra) had not only been born before the revelation of the referred surah, but was actually a young girl (jariyah), not an infant (sibyah) at that time. Obviously, if this narrative is held to be true, it is in clear contradiction with the narratives reported by Hisham ibn `urwah. I see absolutely no reason that after the comments of the experts on the narratives of Hisham ibn `urwah, why we should not accept this narrative to be more accurate.

unfortunately, there is no evidence to support your claim sir about the age of sura 54.
The truth is, had the hadith contradicted teh quran, it would had been dismissed by muslims long ago. The fact that it is still in the sahih haditsh means you lied just to cover for Mohd's paedophilia.

i.e. "Ayesha (ra) said: I was a young girl, when verse 46 of Surah Al-Qamar, [the 54th chapter of the Qur'an], was revealed. (Sahih Bukhari, kitabu'l-tafsir, Arabic, Bab Qaulihi Bal al-sa`atu Maw`iduhum wa'l-sa`atu adha' wa amarr

again, nothing to support your claim.

Png_Prince

Really? So why do you Muslims have to follow teachings in the hadiths?

Debmey, what i say that hadith u quote confirmed the marriage between Prophet Muhammad and aisya, but when we see the age mentioned there, we have contradicting hadith about the age. I have shown u the hadiths by bukhari himself. Bukhari is not lying, he wrote the hadith through hearsay. So its not proven beyond doubt abt the age. And you couldt debunk my posts about the other contradicting hadiths.

unfortunately, there is no evidence to support your claim sir about the age of sura 54.
The truth is, had the hadith contradicted teh quran, it would had been dismissed by muslims long ago. The fact that it is still in the sahih haditsh means you lied just to cover for Mohd's paedophilia

What kind of evidence u want ? Already shown you and u a proving u r a blind and i dont care abt that.

again, nothing to support your claim.

.e. "Ayesha (ra) said: I was a young girl, when verse 46 of Surah Al-Qamar, [the 54th chapter of the Qur'an], was revealed. (Sahih Bukhari, kitabu'l-tafsir, Arabic, Bab Qaulihi Bal al-sa`atu Maw`iduhum wa'l-sa`atu adha' wa amarr

Did u see debmey ?

Png_Prince

Btw, why so ashamed of ur sect debmey ? Why ashamed to reveal here ? Or u still dont know which sect u belong ?

Debmey

Debmey, what i say that hadith u quote confirmed the marriage between Prophet Muhammad and aisya, but when we see the age mentioned there, we have contradicting hadith about the age. I have shown u the hadiths by bukhari himself. Bukhari is not lying, he wrote the hadith through hearsay. So its not proven beyond doubt abt the age. And you couldt debunk my posts about the other contradicting hadiths.

Thats right, its a paedophilic marriage. Aisha was married when she was only 6 years old. Mohd must have taken interest in her when she was only 5 years old.
The hadiths you showed never mentioned aisha's age, mine did. Where is the contradiction?

What kind of evidence u want ? Already shown you and u a proving u r a blind and i dont care abt that.

You didn't show any evidence at all, you muslims made wild claims.

.e. "Ayesha (ra) said: I was a young girl, when verse 46 of Surah Al-Qamar, [the 54th chapter of the Qur'an], was revealed. (Sahih Bukhari, kitabu'l-tafsir, Arabic, Bab Qaulihi Bal al-sa`atu Maw`iduhum wa'l-sa`atu adha' wa amarr

Did u see debmey ?

Did the verse mention any age or timing? Nope.
You made baseless assumptions.

What is clear are these.

Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3310:
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)' Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88

Png_Prince

Number One: Aishah's age.
According to the generally accepted tradition, Ayesha (ra) was born about eight years before Hijrah. But according to another narrative in Bukhari (kitabu'l-tafseer) Ayesha (ra) is reported to have said that at the time Surah Al-Qamar, the 54th chapter of the Qur'an, was revealed, "I was a young girl". The 54th surah of the Qur'an was revealed nine years before Hijrah. According to this tradition, Ayesha (ra) had not only been born before the revelation of the referred surah, but was actually a young girl (jariyah), not an infant (sibyah) at that time. Obviously, if this narrative is held to be true, it is in clear contradiction with the narratives reported by Hisham ibn `urwah. I see absolutely no reason that after the comments of the experts on the narratives of Hisham ibn `urwah, why we should not accept this narrative to be more accurate.

i.e. "Ayesha (ra) said: I was a young girl, when verse 46 of Surah Al-Qamar, [the 54th chapter of the Qur'an], was revealed. (Sahih Bukhari, kitabu'l-tafsir, Arabic, Bab Qaulihi Bal al-sa`atu Maw`iduhum wa'l-sa`atu adha' wa amarr)

Number Two:  Aishah aged 15 at the battle of `Uhud.

A narrative regarding Ayesha's (ra) participation in the battle of `uhud is given in Bukhari, Kitabu'l-jihad wa'l-siyar, Arabic, Bab Ghazwi'l-nisa' wa qitalihinna ma`a'lrijal.

i.e. "Anas reports that On the day of Uhud, people could not stand their ground around the Prophet (pbuh). [On that day,] I saw Ayesha (ra) and Umm-i-Sulaim (ra), they had pulled their dress up from their feet [to avoid any hinderance in their movement]."

As far as the fact that children below 15 years were sent back and were not allowed to particpate in the battle of `uhud, it is narrated in Bukhari, Kitabu'l-maghazi, Bab ghazwati'l-khandaq wa hiya'l-ahza'b, Arabic.

i.e. "Ibn `umar (ra) states that the Prophet (pbuh) did not permit me to participate in Uhud, as at that time, I was fourteen years old. But on the day of Khandaq, when I was fifteen years old, the Prophet (pbuh) permitted my participation."

i.e. "Ibn `umar (ra) states that the Prophet (pbuh) did not permit me to participate in Uhud, as at that time, I was fourteen years old. But on the day of Khandaq, when I was fifteen years old, the Prophet (pbuh) permitted my participation."

Number Three: Asma older than Aisha by 10 years.
According to almost all the historians Asma (ra), the elder sister of Ayesha (ra) was ten years older than Ayesha (ra). It is reported in Taqri'bu'l-tehzi'b as well as Al-bidayah wa'l-nihayah that Asma (ra) died in 73 hijrah when she was 100 years old. Now, obviously if Asma (ra) was 100 years old in 73 hijrah she should have been 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah. If Asma (ra) was 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah, Ayesha (ra) should have been 17 or 18 years old at that time. Thus, Ayesha (ra), if she got married in 1 AH (after hijrah) or 2 AH, was between 18 to 20 years old at the time of her marriage.

The relevant references required are provided below:

According to Abda'l-Rahman ibn abi zanna'd:

i.e. Asma (ra) was ten years older than Ayesha. (Siyar A`la'ma'l-nubala', Al-Zahabi, Vol 2, Pg 289, Arabic, Mu'assasatu'l-risalah, Beirut, 1992)

According to Ibn Kathir:

i.e. "she [Asma] was elder to her sister [Ayesha] by ten years". (Al-Bidayah wa'l-nihayah, Ibn Kathir, Vol 8, Pg 371, Arabic, Dar al-fikr al-`arabi, Al-jizah, 1933)

Number Four: For Asma's age at Her Death in 73 AH.
According to Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani:

i.e. "She [Asma (ra)] lived a hundred years and died in 73 or 74 AH." (Taqribu'l-tehzib, Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani, Pg 654, Arabic, Bab fi'l-nisa', al-harfu'l-alif, Lucknow)

Number Five: Aishah accepts Islam during the first year of Islam.
According to Ibn Hisham, the historian, Ayesha (ra) accepted Islam quite some time before `umar ibn al-Khattab  (ra). This shows that Ayesha (ra) accepted Islam during the first year of Islam. While, if the narrative of Ayesha's (ra) marriage at seven years of age is held to be true, Ayesha (ra) should not have been born during the first year of Islam.
According to Ibn Hisham, Ayesha (ra) was the 20th or the 21st person to enter into the folds of Islam. (Al-Sirah al-Nabawiyyah, Ibn Hisham, Vol 1, Pg 227 - 234, Arabic, Maktabah al-Riyadh al-hadithah, Al-Riyadh) While `umar ibn al-khattab was preceded by forty individuals (Al-Sirah al-Nabawiyyah, Ibn Hisham, Vol 1, Pg 295, Arabic, Maktabah al-Riyadh al-hadithah, Al-Riyadh).

Number Six: Aishah the BIKR.
According to a narrative reported by Ahmad ibn Hanbal, after the death of Khadijah  (ra), when Khaulah (ra) came to the Prophet (pbuh) advising him to marry again, the Prophet (pbuh) asked her regarding the choices she had in her mind. Khaulah said: "You can marry a virgin (bikr) or a woman who has already been married (thayyib)". When the Prophet (pbuh) asked about who the virgin was, Khaulah proposed Ayesha's (ra) name. All those who know the Arabic language, are aware that the word "bikr" in the Arabic language is not used for an immature nine year old girl. The correct word for a young playful girl, as stated earlier is "Jariyah". "Bikr" on the other hand, is used for an unmarried lady, and obviously a nine year old is not a "lady".
The complete reference for this reporting of Ahmad ibn Hanbal is: Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Vol 6, Pg 210, Arabic, Dar Ihya al-turath al-`arabi, Beirut.

Number Seven: Aishah was five years younger than Fatimah.
According to Ibn Hajar, Fatimah (ra) was five years older than Ayesha (ra). Fatimah (ra) is reported to have been born when the Prophet (pbuh) was 35 years old. Thus, even if this information is taken to be correct, Ayesha (ra) could by no means be less than 14 years old at the time of hijrah, and 15 or 16 years old at the time of her marriage.
Ibn Hajar's original statement, its translation and reference below:

i.e. Fatimah (ra) was born at the time the Ka`bah was rebuilt, when the Prophet (pbuh) was 35 years old... she (Fatimah) was five years older that Ayesha (ra). (Al-isabah fi tamyizi'l-sahabah, Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, Vol 4, Pg 377, Arabic, Maktabatu'l-Riyadh al-haditha, al-Riyadh, 1978)

Number Eight: Aishah and Jubayr.
Tabari has also reported that at the time Abu Bakr planned on migrating to Habshah (8 years before Hijrah), he went to Mut`am -- with whose son Ayesha (ra) was engaged -- and asked him to take Ayesha (ra) in his house as his son's wife. Mut`am  refused, because Abu Bakr had embraced Islam, and subsequently his son divorced Ayesha (ra). Now, if Ayesha (ra) was only seven years old at the time of her marriage, she could not have been born at the time Abu Bakr decided on migrating to Habshah. On the basis of this report it seems only reasonable to assume that Ayesha (ra) had not only been born 8 years before hijrah, but was also a young lady, quite prepared for marriage.
As reported by: Tehqiq e umar e Siddiqah e Ka'inat, Habib ur Rahman Kandhalwi, Urdu, Pg 38, Anjuman Uswa e hasanah

What u see from the above hadiths ? R u blind or on denial ?

Debmey

The 8 years was added on, not part of the orginal sir.
There is also no mention that aisha was 7 in her first divorce at all.

Thats what i had been saying, you people made widl claims w/o evidence.
Had the hadiths been contradictiory, they would have been rejected by muslims long ago.

Png_Prince

Let me ask u debmey, ur bible contains a lot of contradictions, then why it was not rejected by christians ? Answer me if u can.

The proof already given, if u cant see it what can i do ? Already references also given.

Debmey

There are really no contradictions but different perspectives in the Bible, all which have been explained.

There is just no denying that Mohd indeed had sex with Aisha when she was only 9 years of age.

Png_Prince

Clear denial. Let me ask u how did saul died according to ur bible ? If no contradiction, answer me straight. U cant prove beyond doubt aisya's age. cheers

Btw, u havent tell what sect u r. Why feel so ashamed debmey ?

Debmey

You can never detract from the proven fact that Mohd's paedophilia here buddy.
Your detractions have been countered, it is you who are in denial.