The evil that had blinded Muslims

barney50 · Post time 13-3-2007 08:53 PM

Very nice...you confessed that your scriptures got flaws..but sorry,
it is not in my scripture.My scripture very straight to the point. To
explain something, Allah doesn't need to produce a long verse.That's
why you can see that there is now long verses I pasted here when I
answered your questions. When I debate with you, I brought together
with evidences, with verses from my scripture...JUST TO MAKE YOU
UNDERSTAND THAT ALLAH,ISLAM,AND MUHAMMAD ARE NOT LIKE WHAT YOU
THOUGHT.And I wonder, you are so stubborn and still not able to
understand, even the explanations given!!!!Whereas you, came here,
assumed this and that, accused this and that, with no reasons,evidences
and verses from your scriptures. And yet, you want people to understand
you.

Copy the Code

That is what you believe but we do not. Yours too has flaws and toomany of them to mention here but you are free to believe what you want tobelieve. You caould not make me understand because there is nothing that impressed me to believe your Quran is divine. GOD did not give those verse in gloden pllater nor written in a tabled carved out of rock to say it was a divine message. Whatever was written was already there in the Old testament and whatever was written following that was compossed by philosphers of Persia. So, cut the crap and face the truth.

People killing before the existence of Islam...I don;t care about
that.That's thier problems, but when the Islam existed no such law
asked you to kill people BLINDLY. For the present situation, nobody
knows whether the terrorists are Muslims or Jews or people from other
religions!!. You also cannot be sure with that...Maybe they are
Hindus..who knows. Because they are wearing masks!!

Copy the Code

You woul'd care because they were not your next of kin. Another selfish Muslim. I see here. No such, you need proof again, sunny go and read your hadith well before you make a grand opening like this. Yes, Hindus going to Iraq and sliting throat of Americans and Canadians. Typical of a Muslim who's IQ is below average.

Then what about the abrogated laws regarding the status of sons of
incest in the Bible?...i meant in the Old testament?.I told you that
Allah not only using the abrogating method during Muhammad period..He
used it long before Muhammad.That's why I asked you to show to me the
abrogated verse.YOU FAILED.So, stop accusing my prophet this and that,
with weighless assumption:
"See what similes they strike for thee (Muhammad): but they have gone astray, and never can they find a way"(Surah Al-Isra' 17:48)[;/code]
Incest had to be there if one accept the Jewish faith and Muslims who have imported the OT also must accept it. But there is no such in our scriptures because GOD created the Sapta Rishis[Seven Rishis]. Lord Bhrama, out of his thought, creates seven sages, or Sapta Rishis, to help him in his act of creation. Sapta Rishis (sapta means seven and rishis means sages in Sanskrit). They are Bhirgu, Angira, Atri, Gautama, Kashyapa, Vashista, and Agastaya. This is not the only world GOD had created. This is the fouth yuga and when GOD creates human being HE doses not create on just one pair but many and they are no ordinary human beings but supernatural beings and from them came forth all others. So you see there is no incest in our scriptures. Your religion believes in incest isn the begining and GOD changes the law after increase in population is the believed of Jews according to Jewish faith and Mohammed had to take that story to make his more realistic. You can believe what you want but not me sunny. Incest konon!!!!!!!
[code]I told you...I have no worry when you claimed that the Vedas
contains medicinal and scientific knowledges.Because, Allah sent parts
of His knowledge. AND, DID I SAY WHEN ALLAH SENT A PROPHET, HE WILL
RENEW THE WHOLE LAWS?.I never said that. That's why, sometimes you can
see the similarity of the scriptures. But the obvious difference is,
what is in the latest scripture is not in the previous scripture..and
what is in the previous scripture, is in the latest scripture..Because
Allah sent down His knowledges 'sedikit demi sedikit' so that human can
adapt with the laws He sent down.I wonder...how can a thousand years
old books before Islam can supercede Quran. Do you know what is the
meaning of supercede?...Menggantikan yang lama...So, between your
scriptures and mine, which one is YANG LAMA?

Copy the Code

The Quran compared to the Vedas and Gita is nothing but verses compossed by philosophers of Persia taking the samples from the OT. Are you so blind to the obviious? There is nothing in the Quran that can be greater than what is in the Vedas and Gita. It is not thousand year but thousands of years and for your information from it came many wonders.

barney50 · Post time 13-3-2007 09:05 PM

eastrun:
Then proved to me with evidences that Uthman does destroyed the
Surahs..Making an assumption,will gain you nothing.Like I said before,
I also can put thousands of assumptions and accusitions upon your
religion, but it is wasting my time when it is without evidence. But I
wonder that you are happy in deceiving people without evidences. . Islam did not asked the Muslims to destroy the temple or statue...I show you the verse:
"(They are) those who have been expelled from their homes in
defiance of right,- (for no cause) except that they say, "our Lord is
Allah.. Did not Allah check one set of people by means of another,
there would surely have been pulled down monasteries, churches,
synagogues, and mosques, in which the name of Allah is commemorated in
abundant measure. Allah will certainly aid those who aid his
(cause);- for verily Allah is full of Strength, Exalted in Might, (able
to enforce His Will)." (Surah Al-Hajj 22:40)
What the Taliban do, has nothing to do with Islam.
Sorry..no distortion in Quran..but the enemies make it looks it has
been distorted, by twisting the meaning and the fact...Which..you
happily follow them..

Copy the Code

Basedon Muslim sources alone, it appears that the Hafsah codex was one ofthe last Qur抋ns to be willingly destroyed by Muslims. Since theoriginal Qur抋n was not accepted, what happened to cause such a drasticchange that required the original Qur抋n to be destroyed? Why wasn抰the Hafsah codex maintained since it was created (in 634 CE) within two years after Muhammad died (in 632 CE)?

Thehistory of how the Qur抋n came to be recorded comes from reliableMuslim source materials. These are called the Hadith. Problems for theQur抋n began to occur during the reign of the 3rd political leader ofIslam, whose name is Uthman (644 TO 656 CE).It appears that as the Islamic faith spread with military conquestacross a large area, the soldiers were reading different versions ofthe Qur抋n. These men wondered, "Is the Qur抋n truly as pure as those close to Muhammad believed and taught?"

Here read this to understand more facts about Uthman: Volume 6, Book 61, Number 510

Volume 6, Book 61, Number 510: Narrated Anas bin Malik:
Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman came to Uthman at the time when the people of Sham and the people of Iraq were Waging war to conquer Arminya and Adharbijan. Hudhaifa was afraid of their (the people of Sham and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Qur'an, so he said to 'Uthman, "O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (Quran) as Jews and the Christians did before." So 'Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, "Send us the manuscripts of the Qur'an so that we may compile the Qur'anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you." Hafsa sent it to 'Uthman. 'Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit, 'Abdullah bin AzZubair, Said bin Al-As and 'AbdurRahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. 'Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, "In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, the Qur'an was revealed in their tongue." They did so, and when they had written many copies, 'Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa. 'Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt. Said bin Thabit added, "A Verse from Surat Ahzab was missed by me when we copied the Qur'an and I used to hear Allah's Apostle reciting it. So we searched for it and found it with Khuzaima bin Thabit Al-Ansari. (That Verse was): 'Among the Believers are men who have been true in their covenant with Allah.' (33.23)

You are a stuborn Muslims who refuse to believe in the truth. When I say your Quran too has flaws I speak with facts and not some crap like yours. Anway if you want to remain in darkness for the rest of your life so be it.

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eastrun:
The challenge is as a 'perli' for the ignorant persons like you..who
tried to be like Him, tried to have and challenge His knowledge and at
the end of the day..you fail to do so. He knows that you won;t be able
to challenge Him, but to make you wake up and realize that you will
fail, then He challenge you to produce same Sura like His. At least you
realized now that you are His creation and won't be able to produce
what He produced. Alhamdulillah.
I repeat:
"Those who dispute about the signs of Allah without any authority bestowed on them,- there is nothing in their breasts but (the quest of) greatness, which they shall never attain to: seek refuge, then, in Allah. It is He Who hears and sees (all things)." (Surah Al-Mu'min 40:56)
"We have not sent thee ( Muhammad) but as a universal (Messenger)
to men, giving them glad tidings, and warning them (against sin), but
most men understand not."
(Surah Saba 34:28)
See you!!!.InsyaAllah!!

Copy the Code

These are told to shut the mouth of followers from asking any question. Read about Socrates why HE is mentioned in history books. If you want to remain an ignorant fool by all means but do not expaect others will be as ignorant as you.

[ Last edited by barney50 at 13-3-2007 09:07 PM ]

eastrun · Post time 13-3-2007 10:11 PM

1)
That is what you believe but we do not. Yours too has flaws and toomany of them to mention here but you are free to believe what you want tobelieve. You caould not make me understand because there is nothing that impressed me to believe your Quran is divine. GOD did not give those verse in gloden pllater nor written in a tabled carved out of rock to say it was a divine message. Whatever was written was already there in the Old testament and whatever was written following that was compossed by philosphers of Persia. So, cut the crap and face the truth

My answer:
I never said my scripture got flaws.Never...because, when I got something in my mind to ask...The Quran got the answer. But you DID CONFESSED that your scriptures got flaws.Meaning that, you have no faith with your scriptures. That's why you against them. Your scriptures never asked you to make commentary about Islam, but you made it. Your scriptures never asked you to say Islam, Allah and Muhammad are wrong, but you made it. Now I understood...you have no faith with your own scriptures.

I don't care whether you believe Quran is from Allah or not, because that's not my problem.That is the problem that you created yourself.It is between you and Allah. My task is only to reveal what is in my scripture...which you misunderstood from the very first day.

Like I told you before, the latest scripture will re-confirm, re-add, re-correct the previous Books...and like the New Testament confirming the Old Testament and Quran does the same thing. That's why you can see the connection between the Books:

"Say: Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel-for he brings down the (revelation) to thy heart by Allah.s will, a confirmation of what went before, and guidance and glad tidings for those who believe" (Surah Al-Baqarah 2:97)

Are you worried because your books so far away from the latest Books?...

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2)
You woul'd care because they were not your next of kin. Another selfish Muslim. I see here. No such, you need proof again, sunny go and read your hadith well before you make a grand opening like this. Yes, Hindus going to Iraq and sliting throat of Americans and Canadians. Typical of a Muslim who's IQ is below average.

My answer:
I have told you..Allah, Islam, Muhammad and The Holy Quran never taught the followers to do that.So, if the Muslims do that, then only Allah have the right to punish them. That's why I don't care, because it is not my right (to punish) to do so.

When you read the hadith, you might read the fake hadiths because they have no connection with what mentioned in the Holy Quran.Read the Holy Quran...no law to kill people BLINDLY.

Are you thinking that in Iraq, only have Arabians?.Which world are you living?.In Iraq, got many races, and any races can do like those terrorists did. You don't have prove, so just shut your old mouth up!!. Everytime also you make a accusition..Heh...is this what you have harvested from the 25 years old research?.
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3)
The Quran compared to the Vedas and Gita is nothing but verses compossed by philosophers of Persia taking the samples from the OT. Are you so blind to the obviious? There is nothing in the Quran that can be greater than what is in the Vedas and Gita. It is not thousand year but thousands of years and for your information from it came many wonders.

My answer:

Hehehhe...at last you are speechless regarding the abrogated verses. GOOD..ALHAMDULILLAH.Hope you understand and gain something from that.

I said that Quran is great, because in the Book, got many commentaries about other religions...Hindusm, Buddhism, Christian, Judaism, and etc...what about your Books?. Your Books, do not comment about the religions that came after it.Then you want to call your Books for humankind?.

I have explained to you, what is the role of Holy Quran...to re-add, re-correct and re-confirm the previous books...of course got similarity with the Bible.But, then, no scripture came after Holy Quran to re-add, re-correct the Holy Quran,Showing that, this is the last scripture brought by the last messenger. Your scriptures supercede my scripture?.Day dreaming...My scripture existed AFTER yours...

"We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms.Of some apostles We have already told thee the story; of others We have not;- and to Moses Allah spoke direct;-Messenger. who gave good news as well as warning, that mankind, after (the coming) of the apostles, should have no plea against Allah. For Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise."( Surah An-Nisa' 4:163~165)

That's why QURAN got commentaries about other religions..Clear?...or you still want to ignore it?...UP to you....

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4)
You are a stuborn Muslims who refuse to believe in the truth. When I say your Quran too has flaws I speak with facts and not some crap like yours. Anway if you want to remain in darkness for the rest of your life so be it.

My answer:
But they found the verse..meaning that no verse had lost. If the verse couldn't be found...then it considered lost.But what has been written in the hadith, no Quranic verse had lost. You see...when the Holy Quran is fragile, when it kept in hard copies, this the role of the thafizs..those who are able to memorize the verses recited by Muhammad. So that they can guard ( by Allah permission) the Holy Quran from corruption.

"And indeed We have made the Quran easy to memorize(for Muslims and those who believe): then is there any that will remember? (for the ignorants)" (Surah Al-Qamar 54:17)

That's why nowadays, you can see...when the enemies try to add and change the verses in the Holy Quran, the Muslims will notice the difference and which verses have been added.Each time the enemies try, they failed. Even when they add the verses in the internet!!.

Lastly I challenged you once again:

"And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true" (Surah Al-Baqarah 2:23)

If you fail:

"But if ye cannot- and of a surety ye cannot- then fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith."(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:24)

It is your problem, not mine.
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5)
These are told to shut the mouth of followers from asking any question. Read about Socrates why HE is mentioned in history books. If you want to remain an ignorant fool by all means but do not expaect others will be as ignorant as you.

My answer:
Socrates has nothing to do with the verse I quoted.

Did I forced you to believe me?.No...it is your problem.My task here is to protect my religion from your deceiving facts. InsyaAllah.

"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things."(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:256)

As simple as that.

[ Last edited by eastrun at 13-3-2007 10:17 PM ]

WLIO · Post time 14-3-2007 11:33 AM

Originally posted by barney50 at 13-3-2007 09:05 PM
eastrun:

BasedonMuslim sources alone, it appears that the Hafsah codex was one ofthelast Qur抋ns to be willingly destroyed by Muslims. Since theoriginalQur抋n was not accepted, what happened to cause such a drasticchangethat required the original Qur抋n to be destroyed? Why wasn抰the Hafsahcodex maintained since it was created (in 634 CE) within two years after Muhammad died (in 632 CE)?

Thehistoryof how the Qur抋n came to be recorded comes from reliableMuslim sourcematerials. These are called the Hadith. Problems for theQur抋n began tooccur during the reign of the 3rd political leader ofIslam, whose nameis Uthman (644 TO 656 CE).Itappears that as the Islamic faith spread with military conquestacross alarge area, the soldiers were reading different versions ofthe Qur抋n.These men wondered, "Is the Qur抋n truly as pure as those close to Muhammad believed and taught?"

Here read this to understand more facts about Uthman: Volume 6, Book 61, Number 510

Ayoyo Ah ney

you want to answer must also CUT and PASTE kah Ah ney.

tak ada idea lain kah

kharrrrrr kharrrrrrr kharrrrrr

barney50 · Post time 14-3-2007 10:08 PM

by eastrun:
I never said my scripture got flaws.Never...because, when I got something in my mind to ask...The Quran got the answer. But you DID CONFESSED that your scriptures got flaws.Meaning that, you have no faith with your scriptures. That's why you against them. Your scriptures never asked you to make commentary about Islam, but you made it. Your scriptures never asked you to say Islam, Allah and Muhammad are wrong, but you made it. Now I understood...you have no faith with your own scriptures.

Copy the Code

You never said because you are a puppet. Although it may not be true but you have to accept it without question otherwise it's hellfire for you. Get it? Yes, I admit because I use logic and not blind faith. Why would my scripture mention about an Arab or his GOD. If it had mentioned the whole of India would be an Islamic country but on the contrary it is not and 90% of Indians are Hindus to this very day.

I don't care whether you believe Quran is from Allah or not, because that's not my problem.That is the problem that you created yourself.It is between you and Allah. My task is only to reveal what is in my scripture...which you misunderstood from the very first day.

Copy the Code

Yeh! I can say the same but I would not because my religion does not believe in compeling others but let others come to it on their own and that my friend is the will of GOD.

Like I told you before, the latest scripture will re-confirm, re-add, re-correct the previous Books...and like the New Testament confirming the Old Testament and Quran does the same thing. That's why you can see the connection between the Books:
"Say: Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel-for he brings down the (revelation) to thy heart by Allah.s will, a confirmation of what went before, and guidance and glad tidings for those who believe" (Surah Al-Baqarah 2:97)
Are you worried because your books so far away from the latest Books?...

Copy the Code

So, if there is someone after this century who comes to claim that he has come to reafirm and make changes to the previous book [Quran] would you believe him to be the new prophet send down by GOD? Because that is what Muslims claim as regards to the Quran and Mohammed. So, what about another prophets coming in the next 20 years or so? Let say he afirms Gaberial and all other scriptures but he has come to make changes so that all can be uniited with one faith because Mohammed failed in his task and so GOD send this new prophet to correct the mistake. Hmm! Got any fat idea? Oh! No, it canot be because the Quran says Mohammed is the final prophet. A clever idea of an Arab who does not waht an others after him? How can that be because he too failed and Islam is in the brink of vanishing with its internal squable and bickering calling each other kafirs. Sunnis and Shiiats cannot see eye to eye...So Mohammed failed in uniting the world and there must be someone ready to come now.
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I have told you..Allah, Islam, Muhammad and The Holy Quran never taught the followers to do that.So, if the Muslims do that, then only Allah have the right to punish them. That's why I don't care, because it is not my right (to punish) to do so.

Copy the Code

Oh! So, you want to punish apostates but would not punish murderes jsut because they are still muslims? That you call justice in Islam? You make me laugh......

When you read the hadith, you might read the fake hadiths because they have no connection with what mentioned in the Holy Quran.Read the Holy Quran...no law to kill people BLINDLY.

Copy the Code

So, Al" Bukhari is a fake hadith? Say it loud so that other Muslims can learn from you. Are you sure the Quran does not say too? Better think again because when I show you you might say it is fake Quran.

Are you thinking that in Iraq, only have Arabians?.Which world are you living?.In Iraq, got many races, and any races can do like those terrorists did. You don't have prove, so just shut your old mouth up!!. Everytime also you make a accusition..Heh...is this what you have harvested from the 25 years old research?.

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I acccuse because there is a clear case and confirmed by experts. Whabbis are Arabs and Osama Bin Laden is an Arab from Yeman. Muslims can be of any race but the fact is that Arab, Pakistanis, Iraqis or Iranians are all Muslims and sucide bombers are Muslims. Period!
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Hehehhe...at last you are speechless regarding the abrogated verses. GOOD..ALHAMDULILLAH.Hope you understand and gain something from that.
I said that Quran is great, because in the Book, got many commentaries about other religions...Hindusm, Buddhism, Christian, Judaism, and etc...what about your Books?. Your Books, do not comment about the religions that came after it.Then you want to call your Books for humankind?.

Copy the Code

Uor religion clearly states that any path that follow DHARMA is a branch of the vedic religion. Otherwise it is fake and religion of the asuras. Show me a verse where the Quran states by name Hinduism & Buddhism or Jainism or that of Zorastrism. If you can show a verse mention them by name I salute you otherwise you are a liar and so is your Quran. Caught you there my child......

I have explained to you, what is the role of Holy Quran...to re-add, re-correct and re-confirm the previous books...of course got similarity with the Bible.But, then, no scripture came after Holy Quran to re-add, re-correct the Holy Quran,Showing that, this is the last scripture brought by the last messenger. Your scriptures supercede my scripture?.Day dreaming...My scripture existed AFTER yours..

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It exist after mine becuase it wanted to compete with mine. It copied the OT and the NT plus Manu smirti. Go do your research and come back. This not Islam but Rojaksalam. A mixture of masala claiming to be a new receipe for curry while the origina are stiil there with better taste. You need to hide your face in a hole boy.....

"We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms.Of some apostles We have already told thee the story; of others We have not;- and to Moses Allah spoke direct;-Messenger. who gave good news as well as warning, that mankind, after (the coming) of the apostles, should have no plea against Allah. For Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise."( Surah An-Nisa' 4:163~165)
That's why QURAN got commentaries about other religions..Clear?...or you still want to ignore it?...UP to you....

Copy the Code

Do you think this is the original verse? Get a life before it fezzels out. It was there in the OT before Islam and coping and modifying that to claim as Muslims is shameful.

barney50 · Post time 14-3-2007 10:10 PM

sambungan

by eastrun:
But they found the verse..meaning that no verse had lost. If the verse couldn't be found...then it considered lost.But what has been written in the hadith, no Quranic verse had lost. You see...when the Holy Quran is fragile, when it kept in hard copies, this the role of the thafizs..those who are able to memorize the verses recited by Muhammad. So that they can guard ( by Allah permission) the Holy Quran from corruption.
"And indeed We have made the Quran easy to memorize(for Muslims and those who believe): then is there any that will remember? (for the ignorants)" (Surah Al-Qamar 54:17)

Copy the Code

Hard copies? Oh! You mean those written in animal bones.....now that is realy a hard copy. How much can one write ina piece of bone? 1 gig or 4 gigs? Give me a break man....Don't make things more harder for you.

That's why nowadays, you can see...when the enemies try to add and change the verses in the Holy Quran, the Muslims will notice the difference and which verses have been added.Each time the enemies try, they failed. Even when they add the verses in the internet!!.

Copy the Code

Ahiyah! Never mindlah let you believe so that the Quran you hold are those varified by Mohammed. Yes! Let him come back form his grave to back up your claim which would be much stronger........

Lastly I challenged you once again:
"And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true" (Surah Al-Baqarah 2:23)
If you fail:
"But if ye cannot- and of a surety ye cannot- then fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith."(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:24)
It is your problem, not mine.

Copy the Code

Allah must be a crazy dude or having doubts in his own messages. But ours dos not need to give such assurance not challenge because it is original and GOD knows changing that would only bering destruction to maknind.

1.Gita: X.20Lord Krishna says 揳hamatama gudakesa sarvabhutaa sayasthitah

barney50 · Post time 14-3-2007 10:14 PM

by WILO:Ayoyo Ah ney
you want to answer must also CUT and PASTE kah Ah ney.
tak ada idea lain kah
kharrrrrr kharrrrrrr kharrrrrr

Copy the Code

Ayoyo Tambi,

This is what researchers have found and it shows there are flaws in the Quran. So what you are holding is not the original but edited version. To show Muslims the facts of calim I cut and past instead of rewriting all over again. It saves time lah Tambi.

WLIO · Post time 15-3-2007 11:18 AM

Originally posted by barney50 at 14-3-2007 10:14 PM
by WILO:Ayoyo Ah ney

you want to answer must also CUT and PASTE kah Ah ney.

tak ada idea lain kah

kharrrrrr kharrrrrrr kharrrrrr

Ayoyo Tambi,

This is what resear ...

So AH ney

you agree that you running out of your OWN answer lah

kharrrrrr kharrrrrr kharrrrr

eastrun · Post time 15-3-2007 10:16 PM

1)
You never said because you are a puppet. Although it may not be true but you have to accept it without question otherwise it's hellfire for you. Get it? Yes, I admit because I use logic and not blind faith. Why would my scripture mention about an Arab or his GOD. If it had mentioned the whole of India would be an Islamic country but on the contrary it is not and 90% of Indians are Hindus to this very day.

My answer:
I am very sure about the existing of the hellfires and well as the heavens.Furthermore, not only The Holy QURAN confirming that. The Bible, talked about that many time, even in Psalms also mentioned about these. You ignored the facts because you are scared. That's why you ignored.You scared if the hellfires exist, you will be burned in it.But for me, I am sure the existence of them.The Christians and the Jews also believe in them.

Of course your Books should talk about Islam and Allah in order to be the scriptures for mankind. Obviously, your scriptures incomplete.That's why you always come with incomplete facts.All these while your best method is by accusing Islam,Muhammad and Allah.
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2)
Yeh! I can say the same but I would not because my religion does not believe in compeling others but let others come to it on their own and that my friend is the will of GOD.

My answer:
Islam also taught the same method, when did I and other Muslims came here and forcing you?.You feel insecure because you attacked people's religion without any commandments from your scriptures themselves. Against your own scriptures!!.That's why when the Muslims protect the religion and debate your weighless facts, you think we are forcing you...

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3)
So, if there is someone after this century who comes to claim that he has come to reafirm and make changes to the previous book [Quran] would you believe him to be the new prophet send down by GOD? Because that is what Muslims claim as regards to the Quran and Mohammed. So, what about another prophets coming in the next 20 years or so? Let say he afirms Gaberial and all other scriptures but he has come to make changes so that all can be uniited with one faith because Mohammed failed in his task and so GOD send this new prophet to correct the mistake. Hmm! Got any fat idea? Oh! No, it canot be because the Quran says Mohammed is the final prophet. A clever idea of an Arab who does not waht an others after him? How can that be because he too failed and Islam is in the brink of vanishing with its internal squable and bickering calling each other kafirs. Sunnis and Shiiats cannot see eye to eye...So Mohammed failed in uniting the world and there must be someone ready to come now.

My answer:
Wow!...a very long assumption. The thing is...Is there any persons with a scripture came after the existence of Muhammad and The Holy Quran?. No!!.Not even once!. You used words 'LET SAY'.That is obvious enough that you are making story which will never happened. After 1400 years, no prophet came!!.No doubt!!.
If Islam a failed religion, than Allah should send another prophet to re-correct the Holy Quran. But, He didn't.Show me the person!!

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4)
Oh! So, you want to punish apostates but would not punish murderes jsut because they are still muslims? That you call justice in Islam? You make me laugh......

My answer:
When did I say that?.Look this:

"Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority (to demand qisas or to forgive): but let him nor exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the Law)." (Surah Al-Isra' 17:33).

Did Allah instructed you to kill people blindly? No, right?. So, the murderer, whether he/she is a Muslim, she will be punished.That's when she/he killed the people with no reason.But, Islam never taught you to kill the non-believers BLINDLY!

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5)
So, Al" Bukhari is a fake hadith? Say it loud so that other Muslims can learn from you. Are you sure the Quran does not say too? Better think again because when I show you you might say it is fake Quran.

My answer:

Ok!. Show me. Nowhere in the Holy Quran asked you to kill people blindly.Before you show me,read the whole Quran first.The answer is in there.

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6)
I acccuse because there is a clear case and confirmed by experts. Whabbis are Arabs and Osama Bin Laden is an Arab from Yeman. Muslims can be of any race but the fact is that Arab, Pakistanis, Iraqis or Iranians are all Muslims and sucide bombers are Muslims. Period!

My answer:
Ahakz!! Stupid!. Like I said before, did you see the Osama Bin Laden did it?.Did you see the Wahabbis did it?. Everytime the terrorist attack the country, they wore masks to cover the face.Nobody knows who are they. They can only accuse the Muslims did this and that. Well..from you reply above,you already confessed that you ACCUSED only.Not with facts,not with evidences.You confessed that

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7)
Uor religion clearly states that any path that follow DHARMA is a branch of the vedic religion. Otherwise it is fake and religion of the asuras. Show me a verse where the Quran states by name Hinduism & Buddhism or Jainism or that of Zorastrism. If you can show a verse mention them by name I salute you otherwise you are a liar and so is your Quran. Caught you there my child......

My answer:
I didn't said that.I never said that the Quran mentioned the word Buddhism, Hindusm .Read the previous post, show me, which part did I say by NAME?.You should read carefully before comment my words!.

What I tried to say was the commentaries about the faith.Of course it didn't say Buddhism,but it stated about the faith of Buddhism and Hindusm .For example:

"And they used to say, "What! when we die and become dust and bones, shall we then indeed be raised up again?" (Surah Al-Waaqiah 56:37)

"And he makes comparisons for Us, and forgets his own (origin and) Creation: He says, "Who can give life to (dry) bones and decomposed ones (at that)?"(Surah Yaasin 36:78)

"Does man think that We cannot assemble his bones?"(Surah Al-Qiamah 75:3)

Did you believe the day of Judgement?. No!.So the verses above commented your faith that is Buddhism and Hindusm.

You worship the idols:

"Remember Abraham said: "O my Lord! make this city one of peace and security: and preserve me and my sons from worshipping idols."O my Lord! they have indeed led astray many among mankind..."(Surah Ibrahim 35~36).

Anyway, that's why I asked, did your scriptures stated anywhere regarding my faith?.You CONFESSED no!.

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[ Last edited by eastrun at 15-3-2007 10:44 PM ]

eastrun · Post time 15-3-2007 10:42 PM

Sambungan

8)
Do you think this is the original verse? Get a life before it fezzels out. It was there in the OT before Islam and coping and modifying that to claim as Muslims is shameful.

My answer:
Laa...after a brief explanation also not understand. I said the books got connections each other.And the latest book re-confirm, re-correct and re-add the previous scriptures.Like NT reconfirm, re-add and re-correct the OT and Quran do the same for the NT.You make me laugh

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9)
Hard copies? Oh! You mean those written in animal bones.....now that is realy a hard copy. How much can one write ina piece of bone? 1 gig or 4 gigs? Give me a break man....Don't make things more harder for you.

My answer:
See the plural word "BONES".How many bones?.Of course more than one.And the words of God not only written on the animal bones.That is why I say...this is where the role of Thafizs(those can memorized Quran flawlessly) is important.And in order to make the scripture stay preserve, Allah make the Quran easy for them to memorize.So that, the verses in the Holy Quran stay the same as usual.Period by period..You just can't accept the fact that Quran stays preserved.You can burn and erase the hard copies,but you can destroy what is in the chest!!.

"Nay, here are Signs self-evident in the hearts of those endowed with knowledge: and none but the unjust reject Our Signs."(Surah Al-Ankabut 29:49)

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10)
Does it ring a bell? Can you recollect where have you have read such verse? This is what Muslims claim that what is not found in the Quran is found in the hadith. Replica of a religion that was born before all others. So there is nothing great about your Quran or hadith because we have it all and so we do not need something that is not original.

My answer:
It shows that God showered His mercy to those who respect that the scriptures were from him. So, the Puranas are the source?.Without Puranas, other scriptures of Hindusm are incomplete.Just like the Quran and the Hadith.Without the Quran, the Hadith is incomplete.So, since your religion itself taught you to believe based on the Puranas, just like the Muslims believing the Hadith based on The Holy Quran, then why are you keep raising the hadith that is not related wit the Holy Quran?.Why are you so worry when the Muslims rejected the false hadiths you raised?.

By the way, it shows, you failed to challenge Allah.And failed to accept His challenge.

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11)
So, you do not knwo about Socrates...Well, that exoplains your ignorance.....

You did not force me nor can you force me but those before me some 800 years before were forced to convert and those who refused were killed by these so called morons from the far east claiming to be soldiers of Allah. If truely it stands by its word then call mUslims to remove the verse that says apostates should be punished by death. If you canot that you and Islam are hypocrates. PERIOD

My answer:

I don't have to relate the Socrates and Muhammad because they are in a different role.Show to me the verse where Muhammad forced the apostate and kill the apostate BLINDLY.Islam is not hypocrite.Show to me that a verse saying that killing the apostate is a MUST!!.

[ Last edited by eastrun at 15-3-2007 10:46 PM ]

barney50 · Post time 15-3-2007 10:53 PM

Reply #89 eastrun's post

by eastrun:
I am very sure about the existing of the hellfires and well as the
heavens.Furthermore, not only The Holy QURAN confirming that. The
Bible, talked about that many time, even in Psalms also mentioned about
these. You ignored the facts because you are scared. That's why you
ignored.You scared if the hellfires exist, you will be burned in it.But
for me, I am sure the existence of them.The Christians and the Jews
also believe in them.
Of course your Books should talk about Islam and Allah in order to be
the scriptures for mankind. Obviously, your scriptures
incomplete.That's why you always come with incomplete facts.All these
while your best method is by accusing Islam,Muhammad and Allah.

Copy the Code

You still believe hellfire and heaven? Any evidence you can produce to back up your claim besides what the Quran or Bible had said? But I can proof hellfire and heaven is right over here on earth. Would you like to see the proof?
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by eastrun:
Islam also taught the same method, when did I and other Muslims came
here and forcing you?.You feel insecure because you attacked people's
religion without any commandments from your scriptures themselves.
Against your own scriptures!!.That's why when the Muslims protect the
religion and debate your weighless facts, you think we are forcing
you...

Copy the Code

No Islam did not teach the same. Read your hadith and learn how the Meccan pagans were forced by the sword of yur prophet. Learn the historical atrocities commited by Muslims invaders who conquered Iraq, Afghanistan and Persia. You cannot force me now becuase we are protected by the FC and this country is run by a secular government. Get your facts before you want to defend your claim.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

by eastrun:
Wow!...a very long assumption. The thing is...Is there any persons with
a scripture came after the existence of Muhammad and The Holy Quran?.
No!!.Not even once!. You used words 'LET SAY'.That is obvious enough
that you are making story which will never happened. After 1400 years,
no prophet came!!.No doubt!!.
If Islam a failed religion, than Allah should send another prophet to
re-correct the Holy Quran. But, He didn't.Show me the person!!

Copy the Code

Even if that person had come Muslisms would not accept him because Mohammed had claimed he is the last prophet. Muslims have made Mohammed their idol and there is no why they would drop him for another. It is a failed religion and for the past 1400 years it has only 1.2 billion followers compared to world population of 5.6 billion. As per OT GOD would send someone else if the earlier prophets or apostals failed in their attempt to bring all the people into the fold. Mohammed failed even with force and in this century there are millions who have apostated. Get a grip of your life.

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by eastrun:
When did I say that?.Look this:
"Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause.
And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority (to
demand qisas or to forgive): but let him nor exceed bounds in the
matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the Law)." (Surah Al-Isra'
17:33).
Did Allah instructed you to kill people blindly? No, right?. So, the
murderer, whether he/she is a Muslim, she will be punished.That's when
she/he killed the people with no reason.But, Islam never taught you to
kill the non-believers BLINDLY!

Copy the Code

Oh! Yeh! Do you need me to quote again and again form your hadith Al' Bukahari? Your ego has blinded you and that my friend is very bad for your health.

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by eastrun:
Ok!. Show me. Nowhere in the Holy Quran asked you to kill people
blindly.Before you show me,read the whole Quran first.The answer is in
there.

Copy the Code

I said hadith and you are refering to the Quran. What are you? A Pak Belalang?

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by eastrun:
Ahakz!! Stupid!. Like I said before, did you see the Osama Bin Laden
did it?.Did you see the Wahabbis did it?. Everytime the terrorist
attack the country, they wore masks to cover the face.Nobody knows who
are they. They can only accuse the Muslims did this and that.
Well..from you reply above,you already confessed that you ACCUSED
only.Not with facts,not with evidences.You confessed that

Copy the Code

The wearing of mask by the terorist is not hide their face from the public and American soldiers who are on the hunt form them. Don't you know simple facts or you are pretending to be a ignorant being?

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by eastrn:
I didn't said that.I never said that the Quran mentioned the word
Buddhism, Hindusm .Read the previous post, show me, which part did I
say by NAME?.You should read carefully before comment my words!.

Copy the Code

Check your post #83: I said that Quran is great, because in the Book, got manycommentaries about other religions...Hindusm, Buddhism, Christian,Judaism, and etc...what about your Books?. Your Books, do not commentabout the religions that came after it.Then you want to call your Booksfor humankind?.

And you claim you never said. Huh! So much for truth.......

What I tried to say was the commentaries about the faith.Of course it
didn't say Buddhism,but it stated about the faith of Buddhism and
Hindusm .For example:
"And they used to say, "What! when we die and become dust and bones,
shall we then indeed be raised up again?" (Surah Al-Waaqiah 56:37)
"And he makes comparisons for Us, and forgets his own (origin and)
Creation: He says, "Who can give life to (dry) bones and decomposed
ones (at that)?"(Surah Yaasin 36:78)
"Does man think that We cannot assemble his bones?"(Surah Al-Qiamah 75:3)
Did you believe the day of Judgement?. No!.So the verses above commented your faith that is Buddhism and Hindusm.
You worship the idols:
"Remember Abraham said: "O my Lord! make this city one of peace and
security: and preserve me and my sons from worshipping idols."O my
Lord! they have indeed led astray many among mankind..."(Surah Ibrahim
35~36).
Anyway, that's why I asked, did your scriptures stated anywhere regarding my faith?.You CONFESSED no!.

Copy the Code

You believe GOD can bring you back to life from your decomposed fragments yet you do not believe HE has the power to manifest? What kind of faith do you have in GOD? You are a funny Muslim.....

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eastrun · Post time 16-3-2007 10:27 PM

1)
You still believe hellfire and heaven? Any evidence you can produce to back up your claim besides what the Quran or Bible had said? But I can proof hellfire and heaven is right over here on earth. Would you like to see the proof?

My answer:
No need...because your proves are..you mixed hell and heaven in one...which I have read in another thread.But the heavens and hells are separate.That shows how ALLAH is very JUSTFUL.You do wrong but you don't repent, you go to hell...you do good deeds and when you do wrong, you repent...you go to heaven. See what Allah says about all good things we get on earth:

"Set forth to them the similitude of the life of this world: It is like the rain which we send down from the skies: the earth's vegetation absorbs it, but soon it becomes dry stubble, which the winds do scatter: it is (only) Allah who prevails over all things." (Surah Al-Kahfi 18:45)

How can you say what you have here is heaven?.Sometimes you are happy, sometimes you are not.Sometimes you are rich, and then you become poor.This is what Allah trying to say.All you got is just for a while only. What you got will vanish. But heaven should full of endless happiness.So what you claimed are not heavens!!

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2)
No Islam did not teach the same. Read your hadith and learn how the Meccan pagans were forced by the sword of yur prophet. Learn the historical atrocities commited by Muslims invaders who conquered Iraq, Afghanistan and Persia. You cannot force me now becuase we are protected by the FC and this country is run by a secular government. Get your facts before you want to defend your claim

My answer:
An old man that never learned and never remember what have been explained to him.Before you read the hadith, read the Holy Quran first. But did you listened..no.So, up to you. You want to follow the fake sources...up to you.It is between you and Allah.I have done my task.

"No soul can believe, except by the will of Allah, and He will place doubt (or obscurity) on those who will not understand"
(Surah Yunus 10:100)
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3)
Even if that person had come Muslisms would not accept him because Mohammed had claimed he is the last prophet. Muslims have made Mohammed their idol and there is no why they would drop him for another. It is a failed religion and for the past 1400 years it has only 1.2 billion followers compared to world population of 5.6 billion. As per OT GOD would send someone else if the earlier prophets or apostals failed in their attempt to bring all the people into the fold. Mohammed failed even with force and in this century there are millions who have apostated. Get a grip of your life

My answer:
Hahaha..you said Muhamamd failed because he only able to get about 1.2 billion followers only.Why don't you say your rishis are the failed prophets too?.After thousands of years, your religion still cannot overtake the latest religions such as Christian and Islam.In order to get 1.2 billion followers, Islam needs only 14 hundred years only. Before you claimed Muhammad is the failed prophet, go back and count the followers of your religion.Tak malu!!.

Whatever it is, after Muhammad, no man had come with A SCRIPTURE.So, your claim is not genuine and unacceptable

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4)
Oh! Yeh! Do you need me to quote again and again form your hadith Al' Bukahari? Your ego has blinded you and that my friend is very bad for your health.

My answer:
No need to..because not related with what have been said in the Holy Quran.Read the Holy Quran first before you go to Hadith, because Allah gave Muhammad two things..that is Quran and Wisdom.And the have connections each other.If not the, hadiths are fake.

"Allah did confer a great favour on the believers when He sent among them an apostle from among themselves, rehearsing unto them the Signs of Allah, sanctifying them, and instructing them in Scripture and Wisdom, while, before that, they had been in manifest error."(Surah Al-Imran 3:164)
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5)
I said hadith and you are refering to the Quran. What are you? A Pak Belalang

My answer:

You never said that? See this...I quoted what you have said:

So, Al" Bukhari is a fake hadith? Say it loud so that other Muslims can learn from you. Are you sure the Quran does not say too? Better think again because when I show you you might say it is fake Quran.

Then show me the verse from the Holy Quran which confirming the Hadith!!

.You forgot what you have written.Really an old man!!.
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6)
The wearing of mask by the terorist is not hide their face from the public and American soldiers who are on the hunt form them. Don't you know simple facts or you are pretending to be a ignorant being?

My answer:
Yes I know, but from there, how did you judge that the terrorists are Muslims.They hide their faces. So, you cannot simply say that are Muslims...these are Muslims.Are you thinking only Muslims can wear that mask?.Which world are you living?
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7)
Check your post #83: I said that Quran is great, because in the Book, got manycommentaries about other religions...Hindusm, Buddhism, Christian,Judaism, and etc...what about your Books?. Your Books, do not commentabout the religions that came after it.Then you want to call your Booksfor humankind?.

And you claim you never said. Huh! So much for truth.......

My answer:
But, did I claimed the Quran mentioned it BY NAME?.Show me which thread I said that the Holy Quran commented other religions by name.It commented the faith of the religions.And automatically you know which religion it refered to.Hahaha..Well..you tried to twist my words...But you Failed..

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8)
You believe GOD can bring you back to life from your decomposed fragments yet you do not believe HE has the power to manifest? What kind of faith do you have in GOD? You are a funny Muslim...

My answer:
Because He is God, never decomposed, never died, never destroyed, He is on another level..won't be as same as us.So, how can you say and put Him on the same level of us...we die, we decompose....By the way...what do you Allah to manifest?(menunjukkan?)

[ Last edited by eastrun at 16-3-2007 10:32 PM ]

barney50 · Post time 17-3-2007 09:55 AM

Reply #92 eastrun's post

:
No need...because your proves are..you mixed hell and heaven in
one...which I have read in another thread.But the heavens and hells are
separate.That shows how ALLAH is very JUSTFUL.You do wrong but you
don't repent, you go to hell...you do good deeds and when you do wrong,
you repent...you go to heaven. See what Allah says about all good
things we get on earth:
"Set forth to them the similitude of the life of this world:
It is like the rain which we send down from the skies: the earth's
vegetation absorbs it, but soon it becomes dry stubble, which the winds
do scatter: it is (only) Allah who prevails over all things." (Surah Al-Kahfi 18:45)

Copy the Code

Tell me you are unable to prove instead of quoting verses that most Muslims do not undestand. You cannot proof your claim so lets just say you believe there is a heaven and hell somewhere out in the other demension but you have nothing to proof you your claim but what is written in you Quran which was assimilated from the Torah.

How can you say what you have here is heaven?.Sometimes you are
happy, sometimes you are not.Sometimes you are rich, and then you
become poor.This is what Allah trying to say.All you got is just for a
while only. What you got will vanish. But heaven should full of endless
happiness.So what you claimed are not heavens!!

Copy the Code

The enjoyment your physical body attains here is heaven and the suffering your physical body attains is hell. What more clarification do you need? Don't you get jealous of someone living in a luxurious banglow with fleet of cars and servants to serve him? Now that is heavan for him while you see people suffering with disease and endless troubles with law and loan sharks where you cannot live in peace and worry where your next meal is coming from which is hell for them. Face reality insted of living in a dream promised by your Allah. GOD gave this earth for all creatures including man so that they would live in harmony and enjoy this paradise but man being greedy wanted more and more and so created an inbalnce which in turn created a hell withing this paradise. Where is heaven and hell without this word and where is GOD without man? Did you think about it? The heaven and hell was created in your mind so that you would abide by the laws of nature otherwise you wil suffer the consequences of your action. My dear fellow, it's your mind and body so, your are free to dream all your life for someting that does not exist.

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:
An old man that never learned and never remember what have been
explained to him.Before you read the hadith, read the Holy Quran first.
But did you listened..no.So, up to you. You want to follow the fake
sources...up to you.It is between you and Allah.I have done my task.
"No soul can believe, except by the will of Allah, and He will place doubt (or obscurity) on those who will not understand"
(Surah Yunus 10:100)

Copy the Code

Contradicting statement from your Quarn. If Allah had given freewill to man why than would he say "if only I will would man believe in him"? Such meaningless verse only people like you would accept as the truth.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

:
Hahaha..you said Muhamamd failed because he only able to get about
1.2 billion followers only.Why don't you say your rishis are the failed
prophets too?.After thousands of years, your religion still cannot
overtake the latest religions such as Christian and Islam.In order to
get 1.2 billion followers, Islam needs only 14 hundred years only.
Before you claimed Muhammad is the failed prophet, go back and count
the followers of your religion.Tak malu!!.
Whatever it is, after Muhammad, no man had come with A SCRIPTURE.So, your claim is not genuine and unacceptable

Copy the Code

Hahaha.....if my religion had done the same as Muslims by invading all othe nations invaded by them, than half the population of the world would have been Hindus. But that was not the intention of Hinduism, it does not force one to accept without proper studying and it has given the freewill to man to chose the path without any force. But as for Hinduism whoever follows the path of Dharma is a Hindu and that includes Muslims, Christians, Jews or Buddhist. Live a righteous life and serve mankind is the way of Hinduism and whoever belonging to any denomination does that is a Hindu and if we look at it that way my GOD! I think there are more Hindus than any others in this world. Ha!...Ha!..Ha!....

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

:
No need to..because not related with what have been said in the Holy
Quran.Read the Holy Quran first before you go to Hadith, because Allah
gave Muhammad two things..that is Quran and Wisdom.And the have
connections each other.If not the, hadiths are fake.
"Allah did confer a great favour on the believers when He sent
among them an apostle from among themselves, rehearsing unto them the
Signs of Allah, sanctifying them, and instructing them in Scripture and Wisdom, while, before that, they had been in manifest error."(Surah Al-Imran 3:164)

Copy the Code

I doubt that because most Sunnis are into hadith then their Quran. Anyway what you qute here is what has been said by the narrator and not Allah. What is surah Al-Imran? Is it not what has been sais by that person? What makes you sure that it was from GOD? It is because so and so said it must be true?
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:
You never said that? See this...I quoted what you have said:
So, Al" Bukhari is a fake hadith? Say it loud so that other Muslims can learn from you. Are you sure the Quran does not say too? Better think again because when I show you you might say it is fake Quran.
Then show me the verse from the Holy Quran which confirming the Hadith!! .You forgot what you have written.Really an old man!!.

Copy the Code

Why don't you show me your Quran which confirms hadith Al' Bukhari? Can you?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

r:
Yes I know, but from there, how did you judge that the terrorists
are Muslims.They hide their faces. So, you cannot simply say that are
Muslims...these are Muslims.Are you thinking only Muslims can wear that
mask?.Which world are you living?

Copy the Code

And do you think non Muslims would read out the verses from the Quran and declare Allahuakhbar while sliting the throat of their victims? Never new Muslims could think otherwise just to save the face of their religion........
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

r:
But, did I claimed the Quran mentioned it BY NAME?.Show me which
thread I said that the Holy Quran commented other religions by name.It
commented the faith of the religions.And automatically you know which
religion it refered to.Hahaha..Well..you tried to twist my words...But
you Failed.

Copy the Code

Being childish I suppose. I quote what you said and here you deny in open thread. Oh! So you are smart enough to know that your Quran must have mentioned about Hindusim, Buddhism and Jainism? Making own assumption uh!? Is that how you analyse your scripture? Boy! You must be losing you bearing........

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:
Because He is God, never decomposed, never died, never destroyed, He
is on another level..won't be as same as us.So, how can you say and put
Him on the same level of us...we die, we decompose....By the way...what
do you Allah to manifest?(menunjukkan?)

Copy the Code

Ayiya! Just say imortal lah.....Spirit soul has no death because it does not poccess a material body. Simple as that. Menifestation if the quality of GOD and if you cannot understand that I do not know what you know about GOD.

eastrun · Post time 17-3-2007 11:17 AM

1)
Tell me you are unable to prove instead of quoting verses that most Muslims do not undestand. You cannot proof your claim so lets just say you believe there is a heaven and hell somewhere out in the other demension but you have nothing to proof you your claim but what is written in you Quran which was assimilated from the Torah.

My answer:
No...Like I said before heavens are heavens..hells are hells. You cannot mix them together.This is world, where we live in there with full of suffers and happiness. But the happiness never long lasting and the suffers also the same. But the heavens full of long lasting happiness and hells full of long lasting suffers.I don't have to explain the similarity of faith in heavens and hells between the Jews, Christians and Islam.It seems that you understood.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2)
The enjoyment your physical body attains here is heaven and the suffering your physical body attains is hell. What more clarification do you need? Don't you get jealous of someone living in a luxurious banglow with fleet of cars and servants to serve him? Now that is heavan for him while you see people suffering with disease and endless troubles with law and loan sharks where you cannot live in peace and worry where your next meal is coming from which is hell for them. Face reality insted of living in a dream promised by your Allah. GOD gave this earth for all creatures including man so that they would live in harmony and enjoy this paradise but man being greedy wanted more and more and so created an inbalnce which in turn created a hell withing this paradise. Where is heaven and hell without this word and where is GOD without man? Did you think about it? The heaven and hell was created in your mind so that you would abide by the laws of nature otherwise you wil suffer the consequences of your action. My dear fellow, it's your mind and body so, your are free to dream all your life for someting that does not exist

My answer:
No...you are wrong. Nobody in this world will get long lasting happiness and nobody in this world will get long lasting agonies.So, how can you say a person in this world is in hell and another in the heaven. Because the heavens should be full of LONG LASTING Happiness and the Hells should be full of LONG LASTING Agonies. So, you cannot compare the hells and heavens with the world which full of nON-LONG LASTING happiness and agonies.

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3)
Contradicting statement from your Quarn. If Allah had given freewill to man why than would he say "if only I will would man believe in him"? Such meaningless verse only people like you would accept as the truth.

My answer:
Read the verse below:

"No soul can believe, except by the will of Allah, and He will place doubt (or obscurity) on those who will not understand"

(Surah Yunus 10:100)

See the behind of the verse. And He will place doubt (or obscurity) ON THOSE WHO WILL NOT UNDERSTAND.

He gave you freewill to choose which way you want to go, but you don't want to to understand,so He makes you suffer for what you have done. For those who followed Him, surely He will guide you.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4)
Hahaha.....if my religion had done the same as Muslims by invading all othe nations invaded by them, than half the population of the world would have been Hindus. But that was not the intention of Hinduism, it does not force one to accept without proper studying and it has given the freewill to man to chose the path without any force. But as for Hinduism whoever follows the path of Dharma is a Hindu and that includes Muslims, Christians, Jews or Buddhist. Live a righteous life and serve mankind is the way of Hinduism and whoever belonging to any denomination does that is a Hindu and if we look at it that way my GOD! I think there are more Hindus than any others in this world. Ha!...Ha!..Ha!..

My answer:
I am sorry...I am not worshipping idols, the Muslims not worshipping idols. So, how can you say the Muslims are the part of the Hindusm?.The faith of Islam, Christian, Judaism are different from your faith!.How can you say we are in one same religion?Looks like you are too desperate to overtake the latest religions, and you realized that the Hindusm failed after thousands of years.

I don't need to explain once again to you that Islam is not forcing people to accept the religion.Verse by verse have been showed.But as usual, you understood, but you act llike you are not.But the reality is, Hindusm is failed and will always fail.

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[ Last edited by eastrun at 17-3-2007 12:01 PM ]

eastrun · Post time 17-3-2007 11:59 AM

5)
I doubt that because most Sunnis are into hadith then their Quran. Anyway what you qute here is what has been said by the narrator and not Allah. What is surah Al-Imran? Is it not what has been sais by that person? What makes you sure that it was from GOD? It is because so and so said it must be true?

My answer:
The Quran is the source and the hadith is the explanation of the Quran.If you go for the explanation first, how can you know the source of the explanation? And what the explanation referred to..Furthermore, if you read the verse, Allah put the word Book IN FRONT the word Wisdom, showing that which came first and which are the leader.

Surah Al-'Imran is a Surah that dedicated to the Family of 'Imran, because they are one of the family that has been chosen by Allah. The 'Imran was the father of Maryam( Mary) the mother of Jesus. The family members are blessed by ALLAH. That's why there is a Surah for them.Read the whole Surah Al-'Imran.It tells about the family. And of course it is from ALLAH because Muhammad never knew the family and never met the family.

"This is part of the tidings of the things unseen, which We reveal unto thee (O Messenger.) by inspiration: Thou wast not with them when they cast lots with arrows, as to which of them should be charged with the care of Mary: Nor wast thou with them when they disputed (the point)." (Surah Al-Imran 3:44)

Allah told him about them.And he told the disciples to memorize and wrote the verses he uttered.

By the way, not only in the Surah Al-Imran, Allah said the sent the Quran and the Wisdom to Muhammad.For example:

"But for the Grace of Allah to thee and his Mercy, a party of them would certainly have plotted to lead thee astray. But (in fact) they will only Lead their own souls astray, and to thee they can do no harm in the least. For Allah hath sent down to thee the Book and wisdom and taught thee what thou Knewest not (before): And great is the Grace of Allah unto thee."(Surah An-Nisa':113)

"It is He Who has sent amongst the Unlettered an apostle from among themselves, to rehearse to them His Signs, to sanctify them, and to instruct them in Scripture and Wisdom,- although they had been, before, in manifest error;"
(Surah Al-Jumu'ah 62:2)

Same like your rishis that received the Puranas as source for other scriptures.Why are you so worry when Muhammad received the Book and as well as the Wisdom?

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6)
Why don't you show me your Quran which confirms hadith Al' Bukhari? Can you?

My answer:
Nowhere in the Holy Quran confirmed the hadith.Meaning that the hadith is not related with what Allah has sent.So the hadith is fake. By the way, you said you want to show me the verse...so that I also can say my scripture is fake,now, why don't you do what you have said?.Failed to find flaws in the Holy Quran?.Heheheh

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6)
And do you think non Muslims would read out the verses from the Quran and declare Allahuakhbar while sliting the throat of their victims? Never new Muslims could think otherwise just to save the face of their religion.......

My answer:
Allahuakbar is a word.Anybody can utter the word even though they are non-Muslims. And, anybody can recite the verses in the Holy Quran.We are humans, I can read and recite your scriptures and words, you also can do the same.No difference.As long as you yourself cannot confirm that the persons are really Muslims, then shut your mouth up.
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7)
Being childish I suppose. I quote what you said and here you deny in open thread. Oh! So you are smart enough to know that your Quran must have mentioned about Hindusim, Buddhism and Jainism? Making own assumption uh!? Is that how you analyse your scripture? Boy! You must be losing you bearing....

My answer:

The verses I quoted before all above the faith that you have practised.No doubt it is for Hindusm. Unless you say that Hindus believe in the day of Judgement, so you can say that the verses are not refering to your faith.I never said that the Quran commented the religion BY NAME.I said it commented the faith and the commentaries are clear enough to show it is yours..because your religion rejected the day of JUDGEMENT, your religion worshipping idols.Since you rejected the commentaries, so can I say that you are not a Hindusm follower?.

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7)
Ayiya! Just say imortal lah.....Spirit soul has no death because it does not poccess a material body. Simple as that. Menifestation if the quality of GOD and if you cannot understand that I do not know what you know about GOD

My answer:
Ayoyo...You put God on the same level of His creations?.I am not. God and His creations will never be on the same level. Like a man created a table, he will never be the table and never put himself on the same level of the table, to show that the Creator and the Created are different.That's the parable of quality of God.

When you put God and human on the same level, how can you differentiate between the quality of God and His creations?..

[ Last edited by eastrun at 17-3-2007 12:03 PM ]

barney50 · Post time 17-3-2007 02:27 PM

Reply #94 eastrun's post

:
No...Like I said before heavens are heavens..hells are hells. You
cannot mix them together.This is world, where we live in there with
full of suffers and happiness. But the happiness never long lasting and
the suffers also the same. But the heavens full of long lasting
happiness and hells full of long lasting suffers.I don't have to
explain the similarity of faith in heavens and hells between the Jews,
Christians and Islam.It seems that you understood.

Copy the Code

Hello! Listen very carefully lah. I asked you to proof of the existence of these both worlds and you are talking like a child. If you are talking about long lasting peace I'd suggest you die first and then you'll know what is long lasting peace...Do you know where you came from and what wee you before this life? No one knows except one or two in a billion would know their past life. There is no everlasting peace for life until the soul realizes its ture nature. But as for most Muslims I doubt they know about the true nature of soul and I can see from your understanding you have zero knowledge of it.

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:
No...you are wrong. Nobody in this world will get long lasting
happiness and nobody in this world will get long lasting agonies.So,
how can you say a person in this world is in hell and another in the
heaven. Because the heavens should be full of LONG LASTING Happiness
and the Hells should be full of LONG LASTING Agonies. So, you cannot
compare the hells and heavens with the world which full of nON-LONG
LASTING happiness and agonies.

Copy the Code

My dear fellow, it will last as long as you are here. Do you understand? The body that you occupy is a temporary abode of the soul and so it would give up when it is ripe or when you are destined to leave. Time is not fixed as one may die after birth, may be at age of ten or when one reaches a prime age of thirty or may be die of an incurable disease at age 40. No time frame for this body but destiny is depanded on your past karma. Ands that my dear fellow is the truth. The everlasting peace a soul enjoys is when it realizes it is part of the Supreme Being and only then would it enjoined in bliss with the Lord. That is what one calls everlasting peace. No such thing as enjoying paradise with virgins and winne. This is all a con job to lure young Muslims to fight in the war along with their leader Mohammed. Mohammed gave this assurance so that young men who had not seen but dream of such place would come forward to fight Mohammed's cause. Get that inot your brain and stop talking like a stuborn child.

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:
Read the verse below:
"No soul can believe, except by the will of Allah, and He will place doubt (or obscurity) on those who will not understand"
(Surah Yunus 10:100)
See the behind of the verse. And He will place doubt (or obscurity) ON THOSE WHO WILL NOT UNDERSTAND.
He gave you freewill to choose which way you want to go, but you
don't want to to understand,so He makes you suffer for what you have
done. For those who followed Him, surely He will guide you.

Copy the Code

Hello! Hello! Can I say the same about Muslims who do not believe in our scriptures and our way of practice? Then there would be no end to bickering because that;s what is happening in this world. Such lame verse would only mean to defend its stand against those who do not subscribe to it. Find something better lah.
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I am sorry...I am not worshipping idols, the Muslims not worshipping
idols. So, how can you say the Muslims are the part of the Hindusm?.The
faith of Islam, Christian, Judaism are different from your faith!.How
can you say we are in one same religion?Looks like you are too
desperate to overtake the latest religions, and you realized that the
Hindusm failed after thousands of years.

Copy the Code

I know it would be difficult for me to make a child udnerstand about simple philosophy....I said those who follow the path of Dharma are al Hindus. Dharma means righteous path and it does not matter if he is a Muslim, Christian or a Jew but if he follows the path of Dharma he is considered a Hindu. Read the Dharma Sastras to understand the value of it. I need not have to because it was already written some 5000 BC, It's Musims who did not foresee the truth. Do I look desperate to you? I'm here with calm and peacefull mind explaining what truth means because desperados like you come here with meaningless verses to convience me that your religion is the only true religion of GOD. Face the truth and go deep into your heart for answers. Hinduism had explained from A-Z 5000 years before Christ, so tell me something I don't know.

I don't need to explain once again to you that Islam is not forcing
people to accept the religion.Verse by verse have been showed.But as
usual, you understood, but you act llike you are not.But the reality
is, Hindusm is failed and will always fail.

Copy the Code

My dear fellow if Hinduism had failed you'd not see Hindus in this world. With the onslaught of Musims barbarians on its land and people Hinduism survived and still is here and will be here til end of time. But I doubt Islam would because when it comes to VSS it would be last come first to go. Bear that in mind.

barney50 · Post time 17-3-2007 03:16 PM

Sambungan dari 94

by eastrun:
The Quran is the source and the hadith is the explanation of the
Quran.If you go for the explanation first, how can you know the source
of the explanation? And what the explanation referred to..Furthermore,
if you read the verse, Allah put the word Book IN FRONT the word
Wisdom, showing that which came first and which are the leader.
Surah Al-'Imran is a Surah that dedicated to the Family of 'Imran,
because they are one of the family that has been chosen by Allah. The
'Imran was the father of Maryam( Mary) the mother of Jesus. The family
members are blessed by ALLAH. That's why there is a Surah for them.Read
the whole Surah Al-'Imran.It tells about the family. And of course it
is from ALLAH because Muhammad never knew the family and never met the
family.
"This is part of the tidings of the things unseen,
which We reveal unto thee (O Messenger.) by inspiration: Thou wast not
with them when they cast lots with arrows, as to which of them should
be charged with the care of Mary: Nor wast thou with them when they
disputed (the point)." (Surah Al-Imran 3:44)
Allah told him about them.And he told the disciples to memorize and wrote the verses he uttered.

Copy the Code

I asked you to show me a verse in the Quran which says you can reffer to the hadith if you are unable to understand but here you want to change the subject. I told you every verse that is written in the Quran is a quote from someone who recited the verse and not direct from GOD. Look at the Ten Commandments does it have any verse under someone's name surah so and so? They are direct words written by GOD.

By the way, not only in the Surah Al-Imran, Allah said the sent the Quran and the Wisdom to Muhammad.For example:
"But for the Grace of Allah to thee and his Mercy, a party of them
would certainly have plotted to lead thee astray. But (in fact) they
will only Lead their own souls astray, and to thee they can do no harm
in the least. For Allah hath sent down to thee the Book and wisdom and taught thee what thou Knewest not (before): And great is the Grace of Allah unto thee."(Surah An-Nisa':113)
"It is He Who has sent amongst the Unlettered an apostle from among
themselves, to rehearse to them His Signs, to sanctify them, and to instruct them in Scripture and Wisdom,- although they had been, before, in manifest error;"
(Surah Al-Jumu'ah 62:2)
Same like your rishis that received the Puranas as source for other
scriptures.Why are you so worry when Muhammad received the Book and as
well as the Wisdom?

Copy the Code

Yeh! that is what I said all suras are quoted by some one and not direct. What does that mean? It means such quotes may vary from person to person. Read our GITA and see if any verse from the LORD quoted by someone. They are direct verses spoken by GOD. Anyway I not against Mohammed receving the Quran but the question is why it has been manipulated and has so much contradiction. If it is the book of divine origin there would be no in fighting and misunderstandg among Muslims themsleves. Why did the break into different sects and having different version of the Quran. Use logic to deal with such matter.

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:
Nowhere in the Holy Quran confirmed the hadith.Meaning that the
hadith is not related with what Allah has sent.So the hadith is fake.
By the way, you said you want to show me the verse...so that I also can
say my scripture is fake,now, why don't you do what you have
said?.Failed to find flaws in the Holy Quran?.Heheheh

Copy the Code

Well! Well! Well!, now I hear from the horses mouth that the hadith Al' Bukhari is a fake. So, whatereve is written in it is all lies and Muslims are ignorant of it. Flaws are many but if one is blind one cannot see the flaws. Pointing out such flaws would not make any difference because its faith that is holding you to it. As I have said long time ago, without this world there is no heaven or hell and without man there is no GOD. GOD exist because of man otherwise tell me who would call HIS name.

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Allahuakbar is a word.Anybody can utter the word even though they
are non-Muslims. And, anybody can recite the verses in the Holy
Quran.We are humans, I can read and recite your scriptures and words,
you also can do the same.No difference.As long as you yourself cannot
confirm that the persons are really Muslims, then shut your mouth up.

Copy the Code

WOW! See how desperate you are to defend the henious act of Muslims terrorist. May be you too had such training and would exercise it when the time arise. Non Muslims like Buddhist or Hindus would not say Allahuakhbar and even if they wat to say there are Muslims who would say they have no right to say such and it is ont for Muslims to say. Hello! I need to study Arabic to recite the quranic verses. Are you so desperate to come up with such cheap statement? Those savage who comitted such henious crimes are Muslims and by you denying it would not wash away the truth. Desperados like you would do anything to help your felow Muslims even though you what they did is wrong. Such mentality is only found among you.
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:
The verses I quoted before all above the faith that you have
practised.No doubt it is for Hindusm. Unless you say that Hindus
believe in the day of Judgement, so you can say that the verses are not
refering to your faith.I never said that the Quran commented the
religion BY NAME.I said it commented the faith and the commentaries are
clear enough to show it is yours..because your religion rejected the
day of JUDGEMENT, your religion worshipping idols.Since you rejected
the commentaries, so can I say that you are not a Hindusm follower?.

Copy the Code

Such stupid judgement from the so learned eastrun. If you cannot find logic say so lah. Why beat around the bush? The Quran was created in order to bring the Jews, Christians and the pagans into the fold but Mohammed failed in his attempt and so declared war against them. That is what Arabs were good for. In those days if you don't agree with an Arab he'll pull out his sword to slash you. They were a barbaric tibe who lived on robbing caravans and murdering rivh merchants to steal their wealth. So, it is a known fact how Islam was spread in Arabia and the neighbouring countries.

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Ayoyo...You put God on the same level of His creations?.I am not.
God and His creations will never be on the same level. Like a man
created a table, he will never be the table and never put himself on
the same level of the table, to show that the Creator and the Created
are different.That's the parable of quality of God.
When you put God and human on the same level, how can you differentiate between the quality of God and His creations?..

Copy the Code

Ever know anything about cloning? Or may be Allah never siad anything about cloning.... That is why in the beginning I said you are an ignorant child who does not realize the quality of soul. You have not realized who you are but you come here to argue about GOD's menifestation. You do not even know that reincarnation of a life after this life exist. Even in the Bible it talks about reincarnation. John the bapthist is believed to be the reincarnation of prophet Elijah. Do you know about it or are you ignorant of such verse? Anway, from your reply I know you lack knwoledge in this subject but trying your best to show you know all. Sorry, I don't buy it.

eastrun · Post time 18-3-2007 11:54 AM

1)
Hello! Listen very carefully lah. I asked you to proof of the existence of these both worlds and you are talking like a child. If you are talking about long lasting peace I'd suggest you die first and then you'll know what is long lasting peace...Do you know where you came from and what wee you before this life? No one knows except one or two in a billion would know their past life. There is no everlasting peace for life until the soul realizes its ture nature. But as for most Muslims I doubt they know about the true nature of soul and I can see from your understanding you have zero knowledge of it.

My answer:

Why so hard for you to understand. Heavens and Hells are something that cannot be seen by your eyes. They are part of the things UNSEEN. Like angels, like soul and etc. All these are the things UNSEEN.So, how can I show them to you?. Well..at least you...that claimed that you are an expert about soul also cannot showed and explained to me what is the soul actually. Why?.Because it is the thing UNSEEN, but we believe its existence.Very simple.You act childish..you understood but you act like you don't.

Aik?. I thought you don't believe Hereafter?. Then why are you talking about long lasting peace after we die?.So you believe la that we don't find any peace in the world?.So, how can you say that the world is the Hells and the world also the Heavens. Keep in mind that the Heavens should full of LONG LASTING peace and the Hells should full of LONG LASTING agonies.

In Islam, we believe that the LONG LASTING agonies and peace will be rewarded during Hereafter.There is where our souls will be judged to be punished of to be rewarded. That's why we don't believe the world is the heavens and the earth because there is nothing LONG LASTING here.Only a day dreamer will always think that.

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2)
My dear fellow, it will last as long as you are here. Do you understand? The body that you occupy is a temporary abode of the soul and so it would give up when it is ripe or when you are destined to leave. Time is not fixed as one may die after birth, may be at age of ten or when one reaches a prime age of thirty or may be die of an incurable disease at age 40. No time frame for this body but destiny is depanded on your past karma. Ands that my dear fellow is the truth. The everlasting peace a soul enjoys is when it realizes it is part of the Supreme Being and only then would it enjoined in bliss with the Lord. That is what one calls everlasting peace. No such thing as enjoying paradise with virgins and winne. This is all a con job to lure young Muslims to fight in the war along with their leader Mohammed. Mohammed gave this assurance so that young men who had not seen but dream of such place would come forward to fight Mohammed's cause. Get that inot your brain and stop talking like a stuborn child

My answer:
You see..Muslims also believe in that...that's why I said that the long lasting peace and agonies will only be suffered and enjoyed during the Hereafter...after we have died and we brought back to Allah

"So glory to Him in Whose hands is the dominion of all things: and to Him will ye be all brought back."(Surah Yaasin 36:83)

That is why the world is not the Hells and Heavens, because there is nothing LONG LASTING!.Only the Hindus saying the world is the Heavens and as well as Hells.

A stupid and stubborn researcher!!. Didn't I said all the things about heavens in the Holy Quran is just a PARABLE?.I repeat:

"The parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised!- beneath it flow rivers: perpetual is the enjoyment thereof and the shade therein: such is the end of the Righteous; and the end of Unbelievers in the Fire." (Surah Ar-Ra'd 13:35).

Muhammad also said that the heavens are:

"Never been heard by the ears, never been seen by the eyes and never been thought by your brain". Simple!

Meaning that all enjoyments that you have seen, you have thought and you have heard are not as same as what Allah will reward you during in the heavens. 25 years research?.You make me laugh.You waste most of your lifetime

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3)
Hello! Hello! Can I say the same about Muslims who do not believe in our scriptures and our way of practice? Then there would be no end to bickering because that;s what is happening in this world. Such lame verse would only mean to defend its stand against those who do not subscribe to it. Find something better lah.

My answer:
Wait a minute. You can't accuse Allah.See the verse below.With brief and better explanation in one verse:

"For each (such person) there are (angels) in succession, before and behind him: They guard him by command of Allah. Verily never will Allah change the condition of a people until they change it themselves (with their own souls). But when (once) Allah willeth a people's punishment, there can be no turning it back, nor will they find, besides Him, any to protect." (Surah Ar-Ra'd 13:11)

and

"Because Allah will never change the grace which He hath bestowed on a people until they change what is in their (own) souls: and verily Allah is He Who heareth and knoweth (all things)."(Surah Al-Anfaal 8:53)

He will only guide you when you have effort to change.So blame yourself, don't blame Allah.Clear?.

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4)
I know it would be difficult for me to make a child udnerstand about simple philosophy....I said those who follow the path of Dharma are al Hindus. Dharma means righteous path and it does not matter if he is a Muslim, Christian or a Jew but if he follows the path of Dharma he is considered a Hindu. Read the Dharma Sastras to understand the value of it. I need not have to because it was already written some 5000 BC, It's Musims who did not foresee the truth. Do I look desperate to you? I'm here with calm and peacefull mind explaining what truth means because desperados like you come here with meaningless verses to convience me that your religion is the only true religion of GOD. Face the truth and go deep into your heart for answers. Hinduism had explained from A-Z 5000 years before Christ, so tell me something I don't know

My answer:
Need me to repeat more?.Ok.

"We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms"(Surah An-Nisa' 4:163)

"Of some apostles We have already told thee the story; of others We have not;- and to Moses Allah spoke direct;-" (SURAH AN-NISA' 4:164)

The similarity confirmed that the prophets came from the same source.And I have told you if your Books already have what are in my, the Christians and the Jews scriptures..I have no worry about that. We are different each other in the way of worshipping Him because new laws brought down PERIOD BY PERIOD..PROPHET BY PROPHET...RE-ADD, RE-CONFIRM AND RE-CORRECT the previous laws. Sorry, Hindusm will never be able to overtake Christian and as well as Islam. It is you that cannot accept that God, sent new laws after the existence of your scriptures.That's why you are repeating a same topic over and over again.

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5)
My dear fellow if Hinduism had failed you'd not see Hindus in this world. With the onslaught of Musims barbarians on its land and people Hinduism survived and still is here and will be here til end of time. But I doubt Islam would because when it comes to VSS it would be last come first to go. Bear that in mind

My answer:
I didn't say the Hindusm failed because there are no Hindu followers in this world. I said the Hindusm failed in term of to be the strongest religion in the world after thousands of years. You doubt about Islam...I don't care because Islam becomes stronger and stronger and few years later will overtake the Christian. Hindusm?.I don't know.The fake religion will never success.

[ Last edited by eastrun at 18-3-2007 12:52 PM ]

eastrun · Post time 18-3-2007 12:42 PM

6)
I asked you to show me a verse in the Quran which says you can reffer to the hadith if you are unable to understand but here you want to change the subject. I told you every verse that is written in the Quran is a quote from someone who recited the verse and not direct from GOD. Look at the Ten Commandments does it have any verse under someone's name surah so and so? They are direct words written by GOD.

My answer:
You twist the fact. I told you...you have to refer to the Scripture first before you can refer to the hadith.But what you are doing now, you refer to the hadith first and then you go to the Quran.Of course when the hadith is fake, the Quran doesn't mentioned about it.

About Moses, you have to understand that God spoke DIRECT to him, but not God who wrote the Ten commandments on the tablet of stones:

"Of some apostles We have already told thee the story; of others We have not;- and to Moses Allah spoke direct;-"(Surah An-Nisa' 4:164)

Same like other prophets...God gave them revelations but with different ways, example, using Gabriel. and the prophets told the people to note down what he has received.The prophets RECITED the disciples noted the revelations down.

You misunderstood about the name of the Surah. For example, Surah Al-Imran, the reason the name of the Surah is Al-Imran, it is because the Al-Imran is the chosen family, because the family members blessed by Allah. See this:

"Allah did choose Adam and Noah, the family of Abraham, and the family of 'Imran above all people,-"(Surah Al-Imran 3:33).

Another example..Surah Maryam (Mary), the 19th Surah. Why Mary?. Because Mary is the chosen woman and the mother of Jesus:

"Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah hath chosen thee and purified thee- chosen thee above the women of all nations."(Surah Al-Imran 3:42)

If you read the Surah Maryam, the reason Allah sent down the Surah was to protect Mary and Jesus from the Jews, because the Jews accused them with unacceptable accusition.Read the Surah and you will find out why!.

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7)
Yeh! that is what I said all suras are quoted by some one and not direct. What does that mean? It means such quotes may vary from person to person. Read our GITA and see if any verse from the LORD quoted by someone. They are direct verses spoken by GOD. Anyway I not against Mohammed receving the Quran but the question is why it has been manipulated and has so much contradiction. If it is the book of divine origin there would be no in fighting and misunderstandg among Muslims themsleves. Why did the break into different sects and having different version of the Quran. Use logic to deal with such matter

My answer:
Caught you!.Read the Quran.There is reasons why Allah gave the name of the Surahs in the Holy Quran like that.The reason is in each Surah.Part of the reasons I have explained above. The words are from Allah, then gave to Gabriel, gave to Muhammad and Muhammad gave to the disciples to memorize and noted down.
Only Moses received the revelations directly from God.
Caught you once again...Quran is only in ONE VERSION.But many TRANSLATIONS.

The reason of there are many sects because some of them are not following what Allah instructed,Allah asked to follow Him, the Holy Quran, but they created the sects with thier own mind. In this case, not Quran's and Allah's false. See this:

"And hold fast, all together, by the rope which Allah (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves; and remember with gratitude Allah.s favour on you; for ye were enemies and He joined your hearts in love, so that by His Grace, ye became brethren; and ye were on the brink of the pit of Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus doth Allah make His Signs clear to you: That ye may be guided."
(Surah Al-Imran 3:103)
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8)
Well! Well! Well!, now I hear from the horses mouth that the hadith Al' Bukhari is a fake. So, whatereve is written in it is all lies and Muslims are ignorant of it. Flaws are many but if one is blind one cannot see the flaws. Pointing out such flaws would not make any difference because its faith that is holding you to it. As I have said long time ago, without this world there is no heaven or hell and without man there is no GOD. GOD exist because of man otherwise tell me who would call HIS name

My answer:
I can say that the hadith is not written by Al-Bukhari, but by someone who confessed that the hadith was written by him.However, it doesn't matter who wrote the hadith, but like I have told before, refer to the Holy Quran before your refer to the Hadith.But you never listened. That is why you keep repeating same issue here.
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9)
WOW! See how desperate you are to defend the henious act of Muslims terrorist. May be you too had such training and would exercise it when the time arise. Non Muslims like Buddhist or Hindus would not say Allahuakhbar and even if they wat to say there are Muslims who would say they have no right to say such and it is ont for Muslims to say. Hello! I need to study Arabic to recite the quranic verses. Are you so desperate to come up with such cheap statement? Those savage who comitted such henious crimes are Muslims and by you denying it would not wash away the truth. Desperados like you would do anything to help your felow Muslims even though you what they did is wrong. Such mentality is only found among you.

My answer:
So, you confessed that the Hindus are very stupid until they can't recite even a verse from the Holy Quran or even to scream Allahuakbar..a short statement, which you can scream it out even you don't understand what it means.

.I never said that you cannot say Allahuakbar because that statement praise my God.I said you cannot when you insult my God.Ask any Muslims. What ever it is, no body knows the relligion of the terrorists, so PLEASE SHUT UP!!.You make me feel that you are stupid.
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10)
Such stupid judgement from the so learned eastrun. If you cannot find logic say so lah. Why beat around the bush? The Quran was created in order to bring the Jews, Christians and the pagans into the fold but Mohammed failed in his attempt and so declared war against them. That is what Arabs were good for. In those days if you don't agree with an Arab he'll pull out his sword to slash you. They were a barbaric tibe who lived on robbing caravans and murdering rivh merchants to steal their wealth. So, it is a known fact how Islam was spread in Arabia and the neighbouring countries

My answer:
Alhamdullillah...that showed that you confessed that you are NOT believe in worshipping idols. Because you cannot accepted the verses are for your religion and your faith.One step for Barney to understand Islam.Praise be to Allah!.

What I can see here, you are the terrorist...because in your mind always WAR...WAR...WAR...until you related everything you hate with WAR WAR WAR..Huh..a seed of terrorist is here. You have read Surah Al-Anfaal(the 8th Surah)?. Read it...you ll find the answer. InsyaAllah.

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7)
Ever know anything about cloning? Or may be Allah never siad anything about cloning.... That is why in the beginning I said you are an ignorant child who does not realize the quality of soul. You have not realized who you are but you come here to argue about GOD's menifestation. You do not even know that reincarnation of a life after this life exist. Even in the Bible it talks about reincarnation. John the bapthist is believed to be the reincarnation of prophet Elijah. Do you know about it or are you ignorant of such verse? Anway, from your reply I know you lack knwoledge in this subject but trying your best to show you know all. Sorry, I don't buy it

My answer:
Yes...because it is the thing unseen.I repeat what Muhammad said:

"They ask thee concerning the Spirit (of inspiration). Say: "The Spirit (cometh) by command of my Lord: of knowledge it is only a little that is communicated to you, (O men!)"(Surah Al-Isra' 17:85). Simple.

Only a ignorant that try to talk something that they cannot find the answer and at last gain nothing.And when they failed, they accuse this and that. If the Spirit is re-use to reincarnate another creation, then the reincarnated creation should be as same as the oringinal creation.

But, in cloning, there is slight different between the cloned and the original...John the Baptist and Elijah is different each other...Think!!

[ Last edited by eastrun at 18-3-2007 12:49 PM ]

barney50 · Post time 19-3-2007 09:36 AM

Reply #98 eastrun's post

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Why so hard for you to understand. Heavens and Hells are something
that cannot be seen by your eyes. They are part of the things UNSEEN.
Like angels, like soul and etc. All these are the things UNSEEN.So, how
can I show them to you?. Well..at least you...that claimed that you are
an expert about soul also cannot showed and explained to me what is the
soul actually. Why?.Because it is the thing UNSEEN, but we believe its
existence.Very simple.You act childish..you understood but you act like
you don't.

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No, it's not hard for me to understand but it is for you and many Muslims like you. What you cannot see Hinduism has shown. What you cannot show Hindusima has shown. You cannot see GOD and yet Hinduism has shown how GOD would appear to look like in form of Statues. What you cannot see the heaven and hell, Hnduism has shown the suffering and enjoyoment man would go throgh in life right here on earth. The soul is the spirit that some of us are able to see of the departed. They roam around until they are destined to take another body. It is all there and Hinduism was clear about them but its a pity the religion theta claims to be the true religion of GOD cannot show any to its followers. It is because Islam is not what Muslims claim it to be. It cannot proof anyting because it has nothing to proof. PERIOD!

Aik?. I thought you don't believe Hereafter?. Then why are you
talking about long lasting peace after we die?.So you believe la that
we don't find any peace in the world?.So, how can you say that the
world is the Hells and the world also the Heavens. Keep in mind that
the Heavens should full of LONG LASTING peace and the Hells should full
of LONG LASTING agonies.

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Normal lah because Muslims like you would not understand simple matters but very clever to quote verses that produce no meaning. When I say everlasting peace which means the soul [Atman] would merge with the Supereme Being. EWhen that day comes the soul is liberated from bondage. How could a complicated and confused Muslim like you would understand this simple facts of life. The everlasting peace is not what Muslims dream of paradise where you enjoy life with virgins and vine. This is a figment of the mind of Mohammed and his followers but not we Hindus. We know what is life and why we are here and from here where we will go.

In Islam, we believe that the LONG LASTING agonies and peace
will be rewarded during Hereafter.There is where our souls will be
judged to be punished of to be rewarded. That's why we don't believe
the world is the heavens and the earth because there is nothing LONG
LASTING here.Only a day dreamer will always think that.

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Yeh! With plenty of goodies. And that is why your people are working towards to destroy it with sucide bombing and creating more trouble among yourself. And the consequences of your stupidty is the result of hundreds of death daily in Islamic countries. A misguided religion brought to destroy the peace of this world.

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r:
You see..Muslims also believe in that...that's why I said that the
long lasting peace and agonies will only be suffered and enjoyed during
the Hereafter...after we have died and we brought back to Allah
"So glory to Him in Whose hands is the dominion of all things: and to Him will ye be all brought back."(Surah Yaasin 36:83)
That is why the world is not the Hells and Heavens, because there is
nothing LONG LASTING!.Only the Hindus saying the world is the Heavens
and as well as Hells.
A stupid and stubborn researcher!!. Didn't I said all the things about heavens in the Holy Quran is just a PARABLE?.I repeat:
"The parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised!-
beneath it flow rivers: perpetual is the enjoyment thereof and the
shade therein: such is the end of the Righteous; and the end of
Unbelievers in the Fire." (Surah Ar-Ra'd 13:35).
Muhammad also said that the heavens are:
"Never been heard by the ears, never been seen by the eyes and never been thought by your brain". Simple!
Meaning that all enjoyments that you have seen, you have thought and
you have heard are not as same as what Allah will reward you during in
the heavens. 25 years research?.You make me laugh.You waste most of
your lifetime[code]
This is what we call dreams od a lunatic. The loonis would dream of anything but in reality there is no such thing as rivers of vine and virgins to enjoy. I have explained very clearly what is everlasting peace and why we are born again and again and how one would be united with the CREATOR in the end when all your karma is exhausted. Mohammed was not a prophet or a divine person. If he was he would have explained the purpose of this life and why we are here. All he could say is fight for the cause of Allah and paradise is your. Such stupid idea could only be created in the minds of lunatics. David Kourish, Rev. Jim Jones and Charles Mason are among the addition of such people. Mohammed was the mentor of these lunatics and we now we have an increased population among them. Your guess is as good as mine....
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My answer:
Wait a minute. You can't accuse Allah.See the verse below.With brief and better explanation in one verse:
"For each (such person) there are (angels) in succession, before and behind him: They guard him by command of Allah. Verily never will Allah change the condition of a people until they change it themselves (with their own souls).
But when (once) Allah willeth a people's punishment, there can be no
turning it back, nor will they find, besides Him, any to protect." (Surah Ar-Ra'd 13:11 and
"Because Allah will never change the grace which He hath bestowed
on a people until they change what is in their (own) souls: and verily
Allah is He Who heareth and knoweth (all things)."(Surah Al-Anfaal 8:53)
He will only guide you when you have effort to change.So blame yourself, don't blame Allah.Clear?.

Copy the Code

Ayiah! This is a Christian conceptlah.... The guardian angel is a Christian concept which Mohammed added to his religion. THis too had been told in the Torah and Mohammed just have to repeat it. But we have a better name for them and we call the evil angel Asuras and the good angel devas. You see, we had that more than 5000 years BC but the religions that came just used the same but made some changes to show it is something new. Sorrylah, we have walked this path long before you.....

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:
Need me to repeat more?.Ok.
"We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the
Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac,
Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and solomon, and to
David We gave the Psalms"(Surah An-Nisa' 4:163)
"Of some apostles We have already told thee the story; of others We have not;- and to Moses Allah spoke direct;-" (SURAH AN-NISA' 4:164)
The similarity confirmed that the prophets came from the same
source.And I have told you if your Books already have what are in my,
the Christians and the Jews scriptures..I have no worry about that. We
are different each other in the way of worshipping Him because new laws
brought down PERIOD BY PERIOD..PROPHET BY PROPHET...RE-ADD, RE-CONFIRM
AND RE-CORRECT the previous laws. Sorry, Hindusm will never be able to
overtake Christian and as well as Islam. It is you that cannot accept
that God, sent new laws after the existence of your scriptures.That's
why you are repeating a same topic over and over again.

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Let's see, you come to my house and take note of it's design because you do not have any originality. You go back make the same plan with little bit of added futures and than claim it to be the lates design for all to follow. Very clever lah!....But you forgot something you do not know how the foundation was set.... You do not know what is underneath that would hold the building for ever till the world exist. Now the question what is your foundation that would hold it forever? Think about it.....

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:
I didn't say the Hindusm failed because there are no Hindu followers
in this world. I said the Hindusm failed in term of to be the strongest
religion in the world after thousands of years. You doubt about
Islam...I don't care because Islam becomes stronger and stronger and
few years later will overtake the Christian. Hindusm?.I don't know.The
fake religion will never success.

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Yeh! Stronger with so many question marks and scrutiny over it. If your religion is so strong why would any one question its existence and why so much debate all over the world? Why are Muslims branded terrorist and why is Europe having second thought of allowing Muslim immigrants? And that you cal strongest religion? It's Muslims who are claiming so but not the non Muslims. Another thing why are Muslim leaders organising forums to make others understand Islam. Why mnust they say Islam is not a religin of terrorism but a peaceful religion. They have to because of what is happening in Islamic countries and the sucuide bombings caused by Muslim radical groups have driven them to come out to explain. Pathetic!