[MERGED]--Room inside Kaba is a forbidden.Why? - Pict page 43

Truth.8

Can a_a reply this:

Ka抌a is a cubic shrine in the middle of the city of Mecca. The shrine is covered by an expensive dark cloth made out of silk and satin, embroidered with golden koranic verses (and decorated by gems). On one of the corners of Ka抌a, there is a black stone covered by gold. This stone looks like a kind of meteor that can be found in the asteroid belt. The room inside Ka抌a is a forbidden place to visit. Only the king of the nation, the Imam (priests) of the city, and on rare occasions Muslim kings and princess are allowed to enter that room, (Nobody else knows what is displayed in its interior). Surrounding the shrine from four sides is the huge mosque called "alMasjid alharam". It is capable of holding around two million people at once. Ka抌a and the mosque are considered the most holy places on earth and the represent first direction for prayer. Islam teaches that Allah (the god of Muslims) chose the site of Ka抌a and commanded Adam to build a sanctuary there for the purpose of worship. This event was supposed to have happened right after Adam and Eve were thrown out of the Garden of Eden. Allah gave the black stone to Adam (in order to use it as the corner stone) for building the shrine.


(It is important to notice that, in the Koranic version of the story of Adam抯 fall, there is no mention of G-d抯 provision of skin garment 憇acrifice

This is your so-called mystery room behind the Kaabah, T.8  Nothing 'mysterious'  about it. You have lied and invented your own malicious fairy tale. You have only made a fool of yourself. :blah:.




:mll:http://arabmk.tripod.com/nst3.html

One of the mistakes made by some of those who investigate Islam is to refer to sources that are not authentic or material written by those who have ulterior motives and who are enemies of Islam spreading lies about it, to put people off and lead them astray from the Way of Allah.




And (remember) when Ibrahim (Abraham)  said: 慚y Lord, make this city (Makkah) a place of security and provide its people with fruits, such of them as believe in Allah and the Last Day.

anti_aktivis

Originally posted by Truth.8 at 22-7-2005 11:30 PM
Can a_a reply this:

Ka抌a is a cubic shrine in the middle of the city of Mecca. The shrine is covered by an expensive dark cloth made out of silk and satin, embroidered with golden koranic verse ...

Hmmmm Kaabah lock?

Y , hmmm any pasticular reason Kaaba can't be lock or restricted to people. I  can't find any verse in Quran say Kaabah can't be lock.

Dude , did u know that in Malaysia , a lot of Mosque is lock after praying session. This is all done with so many reason. 1 of them is to prevent theft. So is it a problem?

So Truth8 , have any question on my first explaination? If no , I will move to next explaination.

P/s , pls go thru kennkidd explaination regarding mistery.

[ Last edited by anti_aktivis at 25-8-2005 10:21 AM ]

13Friday

BLACK stone is now even a fake one painted in black.


Was there ever an old one????


imagination of idol worshippers.

Originally posted by 13Friday at 25-8-2005 01:29 PM
BLACK stone is now even a fake one painted in black.


Was there ever an old one????


imagination of idol worshippers.

And we have to believe that from the follower of a fake apostle, getting his messages during a fake vision?


After his vision, according to Paul's own account (Galatians 1:17), he went into the desert of Arabia for a period, seeking no instruction. According to Acts, however, he sought instruction first from Ananias of Damascus and then from the apostles in Jerusalem. These contradictory accounts reflect a change in Paul's status: in his own view, he had received a revelation that put him far higher than the apostles, while in later Church opinion he had experienced a conversion that was only the beginning of his development as a Christian


[size=-1]1. Paul was never a Pharisee rabbi, but was an adventurer of undistinguished background. He was attached to the Sadducees, as a police officer under the authority of the High Priest, before his conversion to belief in Jesus. His mastery of the kind of learning associated with the Pharisees was not great. He deliberately misrepresented his own biography in order to increase the effectiveness of missionary activities.

  

2. Jesus and his immediate followers were Pharisees. Jesus had no intention of founding a new religion. He regarded himself as the Messiah in the normal Jewish sense of the term, i.e. a human leader who would restore the Jewish monarchy, drive out the Roman invaders, set up an independent Jewish state, and inaugurate an era of peace, justice and prosperity (known as 'the kingdom of God,) for the whole world. Jesus believed himself to be the figure prophesied in the Hebrew Bible who would do all these things. He was not a militarist and did not build up an army to fight the Romans, since he believed that God would perform a great miracle to break the power of Rome. This miracle would take place on the Mount of Olives, as prophesied in the book of Zechariah. When this miracle did not occur, his mission had failed. He had no intention of being crucified in order to save mankind from eternal damnation by his sacrifice. He never regarded himself as a divine being, and would have regarded such an idea as pagan and idolatrous, an infringement of the first of the Ten Commandments.

  

3. The first followers of Jesus, under James and Peter, founded the Jerusalem Church after Jesus' death. They were called the Nazarenes, and in all their beliefs they were indistinguishable from the Pharisees, except that they believed in the resurrection of Jesus, and that Jesus was still the promised Messiah. They did not believe that Jesus was a divine person, but that, by a miracle from God, he had been brought back to life after his death on the cross, and would soon come back to complete his mission of overthrowing the Romans and setting up the Messianic kingdom. The Nazarenes did not believe that Jesus had abrogated the Jewish religion, or Torah. Having known Jesus personally, they were aware that he had observed the Jewish religious law all his life and had never rebelled against it. His sabbath cures were not against Pharisee law. The Nazarenes were themselves very observant of Jewish religious law. They practiced circumcision, did not eat the forbidden foods and showed great respect to the Temple. The Nazarenes did not regard themselves as belonging to a new religion; their religion was Judaism. They set up synagogues of their own, but they also attended non-Nazarene synagogues on occasion, and performed the same kind of worship in their own synagogues as was practiced by all observant Jews. The Nazarenes became suspicious of Paul when they heard that he was preaching that Jesus was the founder of a new religion and that he had abrogated the Torah. After an attempt to reach an understanding with Paul, the Nazarenes (i.e. the Jerusalem Church under James and Peter) broke irrevocably with Paul and disowned him.

  

4. Paul, not Jesus, was the founder of Christianity as a new religion which developed away from both normal Judaism and the Nazarene variety of Judaism. In this new religion, the Torah was abrogated as having had only temporary validity. The central myth of the new religion was that of an atoning death of a divine being. Belief in this sacrifice, and a mystical sharing of the death of the deity, formed the only path to salvation. Paul derived this religion from Hellenistic sources, chiefly by a fusion of concepts taken from Gnosticism and concepts taken from the mystery religions, particularly from that of Attis. The combination of these elements with features derived from Judaism, particularly the incorporation of the Jewish scriptures, reinterpreted to provide a background of sacred history for the new myth, was unique; and Paul alone was the creator of this amalgam. Jesus himself had no idea of it, and would have been amazed and shocked at the role assigned to him by Paul as a suffering deity. Nor did Paul have any predecessors among the Nazarenes though later mythography tried to assign this role to Stephen, and modern scholars have discovered equally mythical predecessors for Paul in a group called the 'Hellenists'. Paul, as the personal begetter of the Christian myth, has never been given sufficient credit for his originality. The reverence paid through the centuries to the great Saint Paul has quite obscured the more colorful features of his personality. Like many evangelical leaders, he was a compound of sincerity and charlatanry. Evangelical leaders of his kind were common at this time in the Greco-Roman world (e.g. Simon Magus, Apollonius of Tyana).

  

5. A source of information about Paul that has never been taken seriously enough is a group called the Ebionites. Their writings were suppressed by the Church, but some of their views and traditions were preserved in the writings of their opponents, particularly in the huge treatise on Heresies by Epiphanius. From this it appears that the Ebionites had a very different account to give of Paul's background and early life from that found in the New Testament and fostered by Paul himself. The Ebionites testified that Paul had no Pharisaic background or training; he was the son of Gentiles, converted to Judaism in Tarsus, came to Jerusalem when an adult, and attached himself to the High Priest as a henchman. Disappointed in his hopes of advancement, he broke with the High Priest and sought fame by founding a new religion. This account, while not reliable in all its details, is substantially correct. It makes far more sense of all the puzzling and contradictory features of the story of Paul than the account of the official documents of the Church.

  

6. The Ebionites were stigmatized by the Church as heretics who failed to understand that Jesus was a divine person and asserted instead that he was a human being who came to inaugurate a new earthly age, as prophesied by the Jewish prophets of the Bible. Moreover, the Ebionites refused to accept the Church doctrine, derived from Paul, that Jesus abolished or abrogated the Torah, the Jewish law. Instead, the Ebionites observed the Jewish law and regarded themselves as Jews. The Ebionites were not heretics, as the Church asserted, nor 're-Judaizers', as modern scholars call them, but the authentic successors of the immediate disciples and followers of Jesus, whose views and doctrines they faithfully transmitted, believing correctly that they were derived from Jesus himself. They were the same group that had earlier been called the Nazarenes, who were led by James and Peter, who had known Jesus during his lifetime, and were in a far better position to know his aims than Paul, who met Jesus only in dreams and visions. Thus the opinion held by the Ebionites about Paul is of extraordinary interest and deserves respectful consideration, instead of dismissal as 'scurrilous' propaganda -- the reaction of Christian scholars from ancient to modern times.

  .



THE MYTH OF PAUL


:pray:http://www.why-christians-convert-to-islam.com/paulmythmaker.html

[ Last edited by KENNKID at 25-8-2005 03:23 PM ]

Truth.8

Originally posted by KENNKID at 25-8-2005 01:56 PM


And we have to believe that from the follower of a fake apostle, getting his messages during a fake vision?


[font=Times New Roma ...

So why must bow indirectly to an object???  

Truth.8

Originally posted by 13Friday at 25-8-2005 01:29 PM
BLACK stone is now even a fake one painted in black.


Was there ever an old one????


imagination of idol worshippers.

.....once truth is exposed.....that so called money making will lose in arab land.

Originally posted by Truth.8 at 25-8-2005 03:48 PM




So why must bow indirectly to an object???  

Indirectly? What object? We only bow to God Almighty.



002.125


Remember We made the House a place of assembly for men and a place of safety; and take ye the station of Abraham as a place of prayer; and We covenanted with Abraham and Isma'il, that they should sanctify My House for those who compass it round, or use it as a retreat, or bow, or prostrate themselves (therein in prayer).


002.133

Were ye witnesses when death appeared before Jacob? Behold, he said to his sons: "What will ye worship after me?" They said: "We shall worship Thy god and the god of thy fathers, of Abraham, Isma'il and Isaac,- the one (True) Allah: To Him we bow (in Islam)."


003.084

Say: "We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets, from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them, and to Allah do we bow our will (in Islam)."

anti_aktivis

Originally posted by Truth.8 at 25-8-2005 03:48 PM




So why must bow indirectly to an object???  

Dude first pls akcnowledge my explaination on Kabaa Lock issue. R u understand. Duh duh. It seem u try to avoid me.

BTW , why direct to kaabah. Dude many time tell u, thats just for standardise sake. Imagine all muslim praying direct to 1 direction instead of 1 pray toward north , 1 toward south and .... Duh u and ur repeating question.

anti_aktivis

Hmmmm Kaabah lock?

Y , hmmm any pasticular reason Kaaba can't be lock or restricted to people. I  can't find any verse in Quran say Kaabah can't be lock.

Dude , did u know that in Malaysia , a lot of Mosque is lock after praying session. This is all done with so many reason. 1 of them is to prevent theft. So is it a problem?

So Truth8 , have any question on my first explaination? If no , I will move to next explaination.

P/s , pls go thru kennkidd explaination regarding mistery.

Truth.8

Originally posted by anti_aktivis at 25-8-2005 04:14 PM


Dude first pls akcnowledge my explaination on Kabaa Lock issue. R u understand. Duh duh. It seem u try to avoid me.

BTW , why direct to kaabah. Dude many time tell u, thats just for standard ...

so what if u muslims pray in different direction? north or south God is everywhere.

It is faith important in eyes of God not some kind direction and bowing indirectly to an object. All this abomination to God

Truth.8

Originally posted by KENNKID at 25-8-2005 04:11 PM



Indirectly? What object? We only bow to God Almighty.



002.125


Remember We made the Hous ...

than why King David, Moses or even Jesus goes  over the house of god???

anti_aktivis

Originally posted by Truth.8 at 25-8-2005 06:16 PM




so what if u muslims pray in different direction? north or south God is everywhere.

It is faith important in eyes of God not some kind direction and bowing indirectly to an object. All t ...

Dude did u now mean STANDARD. BTW what wrong with using Kaabah as landmark? Did u know landmark or perhaps if in technical dwg term origin point as a reference. Duh duh. Hmmm for thousand time I believe I have explain to u this thing before , even kaabah destroy , Muslim still use it "tapak" as direction. Duh duh.

BTW

Dude first pls akcnowledge my explaination on Kabaa Lock issue. R u understand. Duh duh. It seem u try to avoid me.

Duh if only like this u consider a success , ki ki ,in ur dream. Hmmm i thought u asking very tough question. Duh.

BTW , need ur awnser in Twoness thread , or perhaps like u always say , thats is consider success thread for me. Ki ki

Do Muslims Worship The Black Stone Of the Ka'abah?      

  
"And now verily We shall make you turn (in prayer) toward a Qibla which is dear to you. So turn your face toward the Inviolable Place of Worship (the Kaaba of Makkah)." (Al Baqarah 2:144)

The Quran commands the Muslims to face the sacred precincts in Makkah during prayer which is a fundamental tenet in slam. The legend of this purely Islamic development of a sacred stone structure dates back to the fall of Hadhrat Adam (alayhis salaam) from Paradise onto earth at Makkah. It has been reported by Al-tabari that Hadhrat Jibraeel (alayhis salaam) flapped his wings to uncover a foundation laid in the seventh fold of the earth. Angels paved this foundation with stones and Hazrat Adam went round this structure following the example of the Angels. Therefore it stands to reason that Allah Ta'ala contemplated and designated the Ka'aba before the creation of the earth. It is said that the Kaaba is a prototype of Baitul Mamoor, a house in the seventh Heaven situated immediately over the Kaaba.

The Kaaba with respect to the inhabited parts of the world is like the centre of a circle with respect to the circle itself. All regions face the Kaaba, surrounding it as a circle surrounds its centre; and each region faces a particular part of the Kaaba. Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) adopted the Kaaba as a physical focus in prayer as well for other acts of worship such as burial of the dead, recitation of the Qur'an, announcing the call of prayer, the ritual slaughter of animals, etc. Thus, Muslims have been spiritually and physically oriented towards the Kaaba and the holy city of Makkah in their daily lives.




Circumbulation of The Kaaba


'Tawaf' or cicumbulation (the ritual encircling of the Kaaba) starts from the Hajar Aswad - the Black Stone. The circumambulator, if possible, may kiss the stone or may direct his hand towards it saying, "In the name of Allah, Allah is great." He must circle the Kaaba seven times with the Kaaba to his left (in anti-clockwise direction).

On examination, it will be found that the entire universe which is in constant circular or elliptical rotation, is in actual fact moving in the pattern as the Tawaf. The electrons of an atom revolve around its nucleus in the same manner as making Tawaf, in an anti-clockwise direction. The ovum, prior to fertilisation actually taking place, surrounded by sperms, turns remarkably in anti-clockwise direction, thereby resembling the Tawaf. Considering the globe as a whole, it could be found that the earth has two movements. It rotates on its own axis in 24 hours causing day and night. The various seasons of the year are due to the earth's simultaneous revolution around the sun in 365 days. It is really astonishing to note that the earth, in both these movements, rotates anti-clockwise. The entire universe from the atom to the galaxies is in constant circular rotation like a circumambulator who encircles the Kaaba in the anti-clockwise direction. All objects in the universe, atoms, moon, stars, electrical current, galaxies, etc. are rotating in the same way. Moreover, the angles encircle the heavenly Baitul Ma'mur in an ever-lasting Tawaf. In the same way, the Kaaba in Makkah is never free from circumbulators. "Know that the world has come to an end when no soul will circlembulate the holy Kaaba."




From: Load-Islam.com

Do Muslims worship the Kaaba by merely prostrating towards it?

Hadhrat Moulana Ashraf Ali Thaanvi (rahmatullah alayhi), in his book 'Ashraful-Jawaab', carefully probes the matter by providing logical and simple facts.

1. It is a known fact to Muslims that we don't worship the Kaaba but only worship Allah Ta'ala and Him alone. There is sufficient evidence to substantiate our stand and belief. Categorically, we explicitly deny worshipping the Kaaba nor the structure of the Kaaba. Hence, no worshipper (in his right frame of mind) can deny the thing he or she worships. In other words, Muslims deny worshipping the Kaaba and it is not a symbol of worship. The Kaaba is only a direction of worship.

2. When performing Salaat, even if the thought of facing towards the Kaaba is absent from the mind too, the salaat is valid. However, many Musallies that enter the masjid and begin performing salaat without having the faintest idea that they are facing the direction of the Kaaba, still have their salaat intact. Had we been worshipping the Kaaba, then it would have been a prerequisite condition to first intend facing the Kaaba before beginning any salaat.

3. If at anytime the structure of the Kaaba is destroyed then too, it will be compulsory to perform salaat facing the direction of the Kaaba . Therefore, we can say without a shadow of doubt that Muslims do not worship its stone structure, otherwise by its destruction Salaat would immediately come to a temporary stop.

4. If a person decides to perform salaat on the roof of the Kaaba, the Salaat will be valid. Therefore had we worshipped the Kaaba then Salaat performed above it would be incorrect; because firstly, the thing worshipped must appear in front and secondly, it is utterly disrespectful and disgraceful to the thing worshipped by standing on top of it. Imagine anyone standing above their Creator and Maker of this universe.

In addition, Moulana Thaanvi (rahmatullah alay) further discusses other related matters on the same subject - the Kaaba. Did you ask yourself at anytime, 'Why do we face one direction, and not many directions?'

Imagine if there was no one direction to face then everyone would have faced all directions which may have caused dissent and disunity in the heart of the Muslims. Therefore it was essential to provide a common direction for the Muslims throughout the world.

Why do we face toward the Kaaba in particular and not any other selected direction?

No one has the right to ask such a question. However, Allah Ta'ala is omniscient and He alone knows toward which direction His Noor (light) descends. Whichever direction this light is greatest, we are directed to face.

How do we know the Noor of Allah descends toward the direction of the Kaaba?

Only those who possess eyes may be able to get a glimpse of that Noor descending onto the Kaaba. Therefore, Salaat may be read above the Kaaba structure, because in actual fact, it is the Noor of Allah Ta'ala that we face in prayers and definitely not any object or likewise.

The Jurist have commented that the Kaaba, although seen to a certain height, reaches upto the heavens and right down to the earth's bottom.

Furthermore, the secret in facing toward the direction of the Kaaba is the spirit of worship (Ibaadat), and contentment and serenity of the heart. Without this contentment there exist no spirit (rooh), which is the reason we are instructed to focus our sight on the place of prostration in Salaat so that we may be able to concentrate with heart and soul entirely.


From: Load-Islam.com

13Friday

the Kaabah was closed for sometimes to the public once.


why???

black stone missing??

anti_aktivis

Originally posted by 13Friday at 25-8-2005 10:27 PM
the Kaabah was closed for sometimes to the public once.


why???

black stone missing??

Black stone misssing? What black stone? Hmmmmmmmmm why missing? R u sure.

Duh.

Kaabah Close ? Hmmm any problem? Any rules say can't close?Hmmmmmmm

screwing5blades

dalam mencari kebenaran yang sebenarnya kekadang manusia terlalu takjub untuk melihat sesuatu yang ghaib...yang tak dapat dilihat... This is not the first time argument of truth of Islam... It started when the first time Rasulullah s.a.w bring Islam to the humankind... That time, the arabic claims that they want to see god...Even now there somepeople claiming to see what inside the kaabah and asking why it must be locked.. It happens to the people that their heart already blinded by Allah. They can't see they real truth of their life... The true and only Allah.. I hope and pray someday Allah will open the heart to those people which their heart are so blinded...

Truth.8

Originally posted by screwing5blades at 26-8-2005 05:41 PM
dalam mencari kebenaran yang sebenarnya kekadang manusia terlalu takjub untuk melihat sesuatu yang ghaib...yang tak dapat dilihat... This is not the first  ...

I did not ask to see allah but i wanted a photos to be taken inside the mystery room of kaba. is that too much to ask? send the national Geographic to snap pics every angle of the corner inside the room. is that too much to ask??? If national geographic can take documentary abt meca the kaba why not inside the mystery room? And pls no crap view it reserved to prince and sultan.