What Soora 2:23 really says to SFE Talk?

Debmey

And how can the quran possibly be perfect when it is incomplete?

Fuzzman

Quran incomplete? How? If Quran were truly "incomplete" you would not have a probelm overcoming 2:23 would you?

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

I hav already overcame 2:23. The fact that you cannot provide an objective criteria to teh challenge proves it.

cheers

Fuzzman

Originally posted by Debmey at 2005-1-24 02:40 AM:
I hav already overcame 2:23. The fact that you cannot provide an objective criteria to teh challenge proves it.cheers

That's a laugh! How did you "overcome" the 2:23? I supposed you did it by sticking your index fingers into both your ears while shutting both your eyes as hard as you can, while saying "I won" over a thousand times. LOL

The fact of the matter still be that the 2:23 in itself as a verse, is a complete Objective Criteria, which obviously without any doubt, you try to deny as loudly as possible. You see it as a "challenge" [when it is not] because that is a human reflex produced in the mindset when faced with opposing ideals not in tandem with self reformed standards of acceptance. You are intimidated by the fact that the words in this particular sound challenging to you because you know you have no means whatsoever of ever addressing it. That is the challenge to you. Fuzzman embraces the 2:23 as other Moslems do, that is why we see it as a "invitation" to decipher, create, learn and understand the true value of the Quran. The 2:23 to us is and never was meant to be a turn-off as a challenge, where it is such to you.

The inspiration of the 2:23 remains.

ARI FUZZMAN

snipersnake

Dan jika kamu (tetap) dalam keraguan tentang al-Qur'an yang Kami wahyukan kepada hamba Kami (Muhammad), buatlah satu surat (saja) yang semisal al-Qur'an itu dan ajaklah penolong-penolongmu selain Allah, jika kamu orang-orang yang memang benar.
And if you (Arab pagans, Jews, and Christians) are in doubt concerning that which We have sent down (i.e. the Qur'鈔) to Our slave (Muhammad Peace be upon him ), then produce a S鹯ah (chapter) of the like thereof and call your witnesses (supporters and helpers) besides All鈎, if you are truthful.

Debmey

Originally posted by Fuzzman at 2005-1-24 10:28 AM:

That's a laugh! How did you "overcome" the 2:23? I supposed you did it by sticking your index fingers into both your ears while shutting both your eyes as hard as you can,  ...

That's indeed a laugh!
And how can sura 2:23 be objective at all when you cannot give us even one objective criteria or explain its objectivity?

peace

snipersnake

if u can read english u can find it there

Debmey

Nope, there is no objective criteria mentioned in the Quran for this challenge, none whatsoever. I'm giving you a chance to come up with your own so that the Quran can make some sense. No muslim even dare to try it. I'm still waiting.

Originally posted by Debmey at 2005-1-25 12:06 PM:
Nope, there is no objective criteria mentioned in the Quran for this challenge, none whatsoever. I'm giving you a chance to come up with your own so that the Quran can make some sense. No muslim ev ...

For you, nothing of the truth from God can seep through because your heart is sealed. You only specialize in falsehood and you specialize in defending it, albeit with stupid remarks.

You are one of the living examples to prove that what the Qur'an states below is TRUE.

016.108

Those are they whose hearts, ears, and eyes Allah has sealed up,  and they take no heed.

[ Last edited by KENNKID on 25-1-2005 at 12:34 PM ]

Debmey

You see, muslims keep running away from giving us an objective criteria for the sura like it challenge.

I'm so glad this thread goes into 20 pages.

Fuzzman

Originally posted by snipersnake at 2005-1-25 12:01 PM:
if u can read english u can find it there

With Debmey, even if we gave  Debmey the luxury of a handicap with English usage would still work to naught, as Debmey has no intention of putting up with the clarity of the 2:23 as Debmey's mind has already been made to just ridicule the 2:23 as far along as Debmey can.

Moreover to better understand the Quran, Arabic should have been the required medium as pronaunciation, phonetics and text assimilation doesn't work that well in a cross translative medium as the true essence and value of the narrative is somewhat diluted and misunderstood.

In fact Debmey should  make an effort to really learn up some form of Arabic as Arabic is the extention of the early Aramaic language and shares the same branch with old and modern Hebrew. See the graph to understand better.


As God has promised a final Revelation after Jesus in John 16:13, it is only logical that that Final Revelation should come from the language of Jesus, none other than Aramaic

ARI FUZZMAN

Fuzzman

Originally posted by Debmey at 2005-1-25 01:21 PM:
You see, muslims keep running away from giving us an objective criteria for the sura like it challenge. I'm so glad this thread goes into 20 pages.

Of course Fuzzman is "very glad" indeed that this thread has gone into page 20 as it only proves ONE VERY IMPORTANT RESOLUTE answer; i.e. that you cannot make your case on the 2:23 stick. How can you say that we're "running away from the thread, when it is us that keeping bringing up this thread to the fore,  to constantly and patiently coax you to provide a very strong answer. Make the case.

First of all you need to read the soora below and tell us why it is not worthy of being a credible Objective Criteria as a test to the doubtor. For Fuzzman, the 2:23 is the perfectobjective criteria because the objective is to " produce a portion like it" with the criteria as being "only when in doubt"! So where lies the challenge you say?

Soora 2:23 :  And if you are in doubt as to that which We have revealed to Our servant, then produce a chapter like it and call on your witnesses besides Allah if you are truthful.

Then after reading the soora, then please show us as to how you derived the conclusion that the soora 2:23 is a "challenge"?

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

Yes sir, Sura 2:23 does not stick Fuzzman, you are getting the point.
You muslism can't even come up with one objective criteria for the challenge, so how can it possibly stick?
I'm looking forward to page 40. Please help me Fuzzman.

cheers

snipersnake

awww surendering already ;)

Debmey

looks like yu guys already surrendered. You can't evenb provide one decent objective criteria for the challenge. I won by default.

cheers

snipersnake

u cant even answer the surah?

cant u read english?

or u only understand mandarin or cantonese??perhaps tiong hwa??

Debmey

Since sura 2:23 cannot provide an objective criteria, I already won.

Fuzzman

Originally posted by Debmey at 2005-1-26 05:03 PM:
Since sura 2:23 cannot provide an objective criteria, I already won.

Yes you did win but by only sticking your index fingers into both your ears, shutting your eyes really tight and shouting out loud [to only yourself] " I WON, I WON!" a thousand times over. ROTFLMAO [ Rolling On The Floor Laughing My Arse Off]

ARI FUZZMAN

Fuzzman

C'mon Debmey, can't you even get collabo from the the guys in your hood? The 2:23 allows and even calls for that. Call it a "collective effort" if you will. See even Quran can fairly well place the fact that doubtors like you will only run the gauntlet alone dude. You have failed because there just ain't no joint effort from the hommies hunking it out in your yard.

C'mon now just show us you're momma's favorite son by riddling Fuzzman this, something which you have been avoiding this far :-
Soora 2:23 :  And if you are in doubt as to that which We have revealed to Our servant, then produce a chapter like it and call on your witnesses besides Allah if you are truthful.

1. Explain based on the arrangement of the words and the translation that comes with it, why this soora does not pass the Objective Criteria test?

2. Where in the verse lies the fact that says this soora is a challenge?

Such easy and simple questions even a seven year old kid would not have probelms with. Like to see you try preacher man?

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

You gotta work harder at denial Fuzzy. At this rate, we won't make page 40 by the end of this year. I demand more posts from you. Of course, you can do a collective effort with other muslims to make it.

So can any muslim  show us any objective criteria for teh sura like it challenge?
How can the quran be taken seriously unless the challenge comes with objective criteria?