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Tempahan Proton atasi kereta Korea, jenama Eropah
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Penyakit power windows xp lebih ketara pd model waja....
Bila nie berlaku bila ada satu dua model lain yg sangkut habis nama Proton...
Pd saya yg pernah guna model UK spec tiada beza dgn model tempatan yg full spec...
Jd pendapat model yg diimport lebih berkualiti itu mengarut aje... |
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sekadar cakap jer korang nie...agak2 kalo berlaku persaingan yg adil tanpa pilih bulu dalam afta nie agak2 proton leh hidup tak??
kalau setakat bau jepun tuh lom kagum sgt...tp kualiti....ko tgklah yg otai sini..pong pakai kereta jepun gak....hakikat yg sukar ditelan....kepada yg sokong proton...tanya diri...bila dah pakai proton agak2 nak beli lg ker proton nie....??
tarak punya...kencing / konar / sembang jer lebih.... |
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mycos79 at 22-12-2009 14:37 | This Author's Posts Only
sekadar cakap jer korang nie...agak2 kalo berlaku persaingan yg adil tanpa pilih bulu dalam afta nie agak2 proton leh hidup tak??
good article to share
http://www.motortrader.com.my/as ... 926&whichpage=2
autoindustrie
4-cylinder Member
Malaysia
158 Posts
Posted - 09/12/2009 : 12:26:44 AM
Actually you could take out almost everything mentioned mayornaise74, and it could fit the description of almost any developed nation.
He says cars are expensive over in Deutschland, so are cars in Hong Kong, Japan, Singapore, and even non-Euro zone states like UK and Sweden. In the UK you have 25 pounds for congestion charges just to enter central business district area of London. And KL people complain about toll? In Singapore you have the infamous ERP. In Japan, the government uses mandatory vehicle inspection laws to force you to change cars every 3 years. Where do you think we have such a huge supply of grey import Harriers and Alphards that are considered junks in Japan. The cost to keep cars over 5 years running so ridiculous that Japanese owners are required to replace the entire brake system irrespective of whether is it working well or not.
There is no perfect public transport system - not even in Japan or HK or SG. I think the best can be found in Scandinavian cities of Zurich, Oslo and Copenhagen. But I am very sure their citizens have some complaints about them as well. Those clockwork efficiency trains and buses come at a cost - the government taxes up to 40% of your income. But in return you get all these superb public services.
Germans are lacking in "humanly touch?" The same can be said for residents of any urban city. I don't think working with people in the so-called very friendly Tokyo is nice at all. It's nice if you are tourist, not so if you are a gaijin in corporate Japan. Same can be said to any urban city - NY, LA, London, Munich etc etc. They don't like children? Aren't birth rates falling in almost all developed nations, particularly metro areas? Isn't it common understanding that even affluent young urban Malaysians are putting off child bearing, pushing it later and giving birth to less?
Contrary to what was mentioned here, I actually came across 2 Germans that have been here for more than 10 years. One of them is a close contact but is from an entirely different industry. Both of them however have no intention to return to Germany and is very happily settled here. One doesn't like the overly regulated life in Germany. He can't even smoke freely in public without being booked. Another doesn't like the horrible weather. One is very reserved while the other is a very jovial family man - certainly don't fit the stereotype of there are no comedians in Germany. Partly because he is an old man who grew up in East Germany. He knows how hard life (he tells me of a story of how scarce nails were in post WW2, how they have to carefully straighten bent nails to be reused) can be and has learned to see the good and appreciate all things we have. Like in many things, if one were to form opinions solely based on our own social circle, we will naturally get very skewed opinions.
Although I have never lived extensively in Germany, my understanding is that Germany has one of the most extensive welfare state in Western Europe. Healthcare is subisidised very heavily by the government, with none of the poor standards that we see here. Not only that, almost everyone have healthcare insurance, partially paid for by the government. As a German you certainly need not worry about healthcare cost. But of course this is not extended to non-citizens. Germany have one of the most rigid employment laws and it is very difficult to retrench workers. You even have to pay for their dental care cost for x years as part of the retrenchment benefits!
If you are concerned about healthcare cost then the place to avoid is USA. No Medicare and no hospital will want to take you in. A minor surgery can bankrupt you, no thanks to the American culture of suing anyone for anything, that has driven up litigation liability cost in healthcare.
Did you know that Germany provides free education up to PhD level, even for non-citizens? That is if you pass the rigid entrance exams and German language fluency test.
But enough about those Germans. Like someone said, there is no perfect country. Then again, there are not that many countries with as much wasted opportunities as Malaysia.
About Proton - my opinions will not win many fans. But I believe setting up Proton and erecting up trade barriers is a step in the right direction. But somewhere along the line things got messed up pretty badly. Brazil banned sales of imported cars at one time, and is today one of VW's largest markets. Korea went to the extent of controlling the size of showroom of foreign car brands. Until today, if you own a foreign car, you could be singled out for investigation for tax evasion. And Korea does not recognise most of the UNECE vehicle regulations adopted by most European and Japanese countries. This indirectly drives up cost to any company that wants to sell cars in Korea because you would need incur a lot of validation cost to pass their domestic certification. Big 'ol Toyota grew out of a protected Japan in the early post war years.
Liberalise the markets they say - why don't we ask Japan or even USA to liberalise their markets to Third World exports - like textile, poultry meat and even generic drugs? Rather than hiding behind non-tariff barriers like environmental laws and consumer safety. If these governments are so damn concerned of the environment why are they exporting cheap polluting machineries to the Third World? I have never believed in the philosophy of greater good will eventually happen in a free market, driven by some random magical mythical thing called market forces. MNCs exist for only one thing - to generate profit for shareholders. They move from country to country, exploiting resources and shipping everything they can mine and harvest out, leaving the country in a mess. They still do the same, but in a far more sophisticated manner that's all. Car companies are facing increasingly tough anti-car lobby and environmental regulations at home. They rely a lot of Third World country like us to lap up their cheap to produce polluting cars to prop up their accounting books back home. Would you want to be at the mercy of these companies? Think about the consequences of how hard will these companies play hard if the government wants to tighten environmental laws that will drive up their cost - if these car makers know how much they control your economy.
Explaining my views on macro economics and trade policies would deviate too much from this thread.
There is really nothing unusual about protecting Proton and nobody can argue in absolute terms that protectionism will doom the industry. The problem was the execution and the lack of a clear plan. As well as lacking in the "will of the people".
I was watching documentary on Sun Tzu before this, and one of the maxims thought is the importance of "will of the people" behind any war. If I can draw parallels we basically didn't have enough support from the people as not many can see how will they benefit from Proton. In Korea, chaebols feed the country and many work for them. Hyundai builds the factory, as well as machineries, cars are made using Hyundai steel, finished cars are shipped out using Hyundai built ships. It's the same with smaller Samsung, which is also the largest credit financier in Korea. In Japan, keiretsus are the backbone of Japan and a strong domestic car industry benefits everyone within the industrial keiretsus - the banks, the freight forwarders, the parts makers, steel makers, the factory machinery builders, etc etc. Chances are the average wage earner Japanese works for companies that indirectly relies on a strong manufacturing industry, including cars. Everyone was behind to push the made-in-my-country agenda.
Malaysia's project started off on a wrong footing - it was part of a grand industrialization plan to lift social status of one ethnic group of the country. You don't need to be a genius to know that it will end up being manipulated by the politically connected few and will eventually tear the country apart.
http://www.theautoindustrieblog.com |
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sekadar cakap jer korang nie...agak2 kalo berlaku persaingan yg adil tanpa pilih bulu dalam afta nie agak2 proton leh hidup tak??
kalau setakat bau jepun tuh lom kagum sgt...tp kualiti....ko tgklah ...
mycos79 Post at 22-12-2009 14:37 
manyak botol...kalo rega waja 60k civic 70k wa berani ckp majoriti 90% akan pilih civic..mungkin peyno pilih waja kott |
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25# kecimpret
I coundn't agree more |
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24# raies
ahaha, panjangnye..
blank dah aku he4..
sape leh summary this article? |
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mycos79 at 22-12-2009 14:37 | This Author's Posts Only
sekadar cakap jer korang nie...agak2 kalo berlaku persaingan yg adil tanpa pilih bulu dalam afta nie agak2 proton leh hidup tak??
===================
soalan ni nampak keanak anakan.. takpe la peyno cuba menjawap...
peyno ada letak harga product proton di Thai dan Indonesia..... di sana mereka mengamalkan open market dan proton boleh bersaing dgn pengeluar lain.. so why not..
yg peyno risau tu perodua.. kalau buat open market.. big boss daihatsu sendiri bawak masuyk boon, luminas pasaran ASEAN.. sapa lak yg nak beli perodua???
at least proton dah boleh masuk pasaran luar.. perodua.. nak jual kat Indon pon terpaksa pakai nama daihatsu.. kalau pakai nam perodua.. takde sapa nak beli |
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manyak botol...kalo rega waja 60k civic 70k wa berani ckp majoriti 90% akan pilih civic..mungkin peyno pilih waja kott
kecimpret Post at 22-12-2009 17:00 
sama la kalau ko tanya pembeli2 di Thai dan Indonesia yg membeli product proton instead of "2nd class jepun car"
or mungkin bagi mereka.. 2nd class jpas car ni is nothing... depa jenis tak mudah kagum kot.. org mesia je |
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ni saya copy paste balik
good article to share
http://www.motortrader.com.my/as ... 926&whichpage=2
autoindustrie
4-cylinder Member
Malaysia
158 Posts
Posted - 09/12/2009 : 12:26:44 AM
Actually you could take out almost everything mentioned mayornaise74, and it could fit the description of almost any developed nation.
He says cars are expensive over in Deutschland, so are cars in Hong Kong, Japan, Singapore, and even non-Euro zone states like UK and Sweden. In the UK you have 25 pounds for congestion charges just to enter central business district area of London. And KL people complain about toll? In Singapore you have the infamous ERP. In Japan, the government uses mandatory vehicle inspection laws to force you to change cars every 3 years. Where do you think we have such a huge supply of grey import Harriers and Alphards that are considered junks in Japan. The cost to keep cars over 5 years running so ridiculous that Japanese owners are required to replace the entire brake system irrespective of whether is it working well or not.
There is no perfect public transport system - not even in Japan or HK or SG. I think the best can be found in Scandinavian cities of Zurich, Oslo and Copenhagen. But I am very sure their citizens have some complaints about them as well. Those clockwork efficiency trains and buses come at a cost - the government taxes up to 40% of your income. But in return you get all these superb public services.
Germans are lacking in "humanly touch?" The same can be said for residents of any urban city. I don't think working with people in the so-called very friendly Tokyo is nice at all. It's nice if you are tourist, not so if you are a gaijin in corporate Japan. Same can be said to any urban city - NY, LA, London, Munich etc etc. They don't like children? Aren't birth rates falling in almost all developed nations, particularly metro areas? Isn't it common understanding that even affluent young urban Malaysians are putting off child bearing, pushing it later and giving birth to less?
Contrary to what was mentioned here, I actually came across 2 Germans that have been here for more than 10 years. One of them is a close contact but is from an entirely different industry. Both of them however have no intention to return to Germany and is very happily settled here. One doesn't like the overly regulated life in Germany. He can't even smoke freely in public without being booked. Another doesn't like the horrible weather. One is very reserved while the other is a very jovial family man - certainly don't fit the stereotype of there are no comedians in Germany. Partly because he is an old man who grew up in East Germany. He knows how hard life (he tells me of a story of how scarce nails were in post WW2, how they have to carefully straighten bent nails to be reused) can be and has learned to see the good and appreciate all things we have. Like in many things, if one were to form opinions solely based on our own social circle, we will naturally get very skewed opinions.
Although I have never lived extensively in Germany, my understanding is that Germany has one of the most extensive welfare state in Western Europe. Healthcare is subisidised very heavily by the government, with none of the poor standards that we see here. Not only that, almost everyone have healthcare insurance, partially paid for by the government. As a German you certainly need not worry about healthcare cost. But of course this is not extended to non-citizens. Germany have one of the most rigid employment laws and it is very difficult to retrench workers. You even have to pay for their dental care cost for x years as part of the retrenchment benefits!
If you are concerned about healthcare cost then the place to avoid is USA. No Medicare and no hospital will want to take you in. A minor surgery can bankrupt you, no thanks to the American culture of suing anyone for anything, that has driven up litigation liability cost in healthcare.
Did you know that Germany provides free education up to PhD level, even for non-citizens? That is if you pass the rigid entrance exams and German language fluency test.
But enough about those Germans. Like someone said, there is no perfect country. Then again, there are not that many countries with as much wasted opportunities as Malaysia.
About Proton - my opinions will not win many fans. But I believe setting up Proton and erecting up trade barriers is a step in the right direction. But somewhere along the line things got messed up pretty badly. Brazil banned sales of imported cars at one time, and is today one of VW's largest markets. Korea went to the extent of controlling the size of showroom of foreign car brands. Until today, if you own a foreign car, you could be singled out for investigation for tax evasion. And Korea does not recognise most of the UNECE vehicle regulations adopted by most European and Japanese countries. This indirectly drives up cost to any company that wants to sell cars in Korea because you would need incur a lot of validation cost to pass their domestic certification. Big 'ol Toyota grew out of a protected Japan in the early post war years.
Liberalise the markets they say - why don't we ask Japan or even USA to liberalise their markets to Third World exports - like textile, poultry meat and even generic drugs? Rather than hiding behind non-tariff barriers like environmental laws and consumer safety. If these governments are so damn concerned of the environment why are they exporting cheap polluting machineries to the Third World? I have never believed in the philosophy of greater good will eventually happen in a free market, driven by some random magical mythical thing called market forces. MNCs exist for only one thing - to generate profit for shareholders. They move from country to country, exploiting resources and shipping everything they can mine and harvest out, leaving the country in a mess. They still do the same, but in a far more sophisticated manner that's all. Car companies are facing increasingly tough anti-car lobby and environmental regulations at home. They rely a lot of Third World country like us to lap up their cheap to produce polluting cars to prop up their accounting books back home. Would you want to be at the mercy of these companies? Think about the consequences of how hard will these companies play hard if the government wants to tighten environmental laws that will drive up their cost - if these car makers know how much they control your economy.
Explaining my views on macro economics and trade policies would deviate too much from this thread.
There is really nothing unusual about protecting Proton and nobody can argue in absolute terms that protectionism will doom the industry. The problem was the execution and the lack of a clear plan. As well as lacking in the "will of the people".
I was watching documentary on Sun Tzu before this, and one of the maxims thought is the importance of "will of the people" behind any war. If I can draw parallels we basically didn't have enough support from the people as not many can see how will they benefit from Proton. In Korea, chaebols feed the country and many work for them. Hyundai builds the factory, as well as machineries, cars are made using Hyundai steel, finished cars are shipped out using Hyundai built ships. It's the same with smaller Samsung, which is also the largest credit financier in Korea. In Japan, keiretsus are the backbone of Japan and a strong domestic car industry benefits everyone within the industrial keiretsus - the banks, the freight forwarders, the parts makers, steel makers, the factory machinery builders, etc etc. Chances are the average wage earner Japanese works for companies that indirectly relies on a strong manufacturing industry, including cars. Everyone was behind to push the made-in-my-country agenda.
Malaysia's project started off on a wrong footing - it was part of a grand industrialization plan to lift social status of one ethnic group of the country. You don't need to be a genius to know that it will end up being manipulated by the politically connected few and will eventually tear the country apart.
http://www.theautoindustrieblog.com |
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Post Last Edit by raies at 23-12-2009 09:13
yg ni plak point yg penting nyer.......atas permintaan bro dune
About Proton - my opinions will not win many fans. But I believe setting up Proton and erecting up trade barriers is a step in the right direction. But somewhere along the line things got messed up pretty badly. Brazil banned sales of imported cars at one time, and is today one of VW's largest markets. Korea went to the extent of controlling the size of showroom of foreign car brands. Until today, if you own a foreign car, you could be singled out for investigation for tax evasion. And Korea does not recognise most of the UNECE vehicle regulations adopted by most European and Japanese countries. This indirectly drives up cost to any company that wants to sell cars in Korea because you would need incur a lot of validation cost to pass their domestic certification. Big 'ol Toyota grew out of a protected Japan in the early post war years.
Liberalise the markets they say - why don't we ask Japan or even USA to liberalise their markets to Third World exports - like textile, poultry meat and even generic drugs? Rather than hiding behind non-tariff barriers like environmental laws and consumer safety. If these governments are so damn concerned of the environment why are they exporting cheap polluting machineries to the Third World? I have never believed in the philosophy of greater good will eventually happen in a free market, driven by some random magical mythical thing called market forces. MNCs exist for only one thing - to generate profit for shareholders. They move from country to country, exploiting resources and shipping everything they can mine and harvest out, leaving the country in a mess. They still do the same, but in a far more sophisticated manner that's all. Car companies are facing increasingly tough anti-car lobby and environmental regulations at home. They rely a lot of Third World country like us to lap up their cheap to produce polluting cars to prop up their accounting books back home. Would you want to be at the mercy of these companies? Think about the consequences of how hard will these companies play hard if the government wants to tighten environmental laws that will drive up their cost - if these car makers know how much they control your economy.
Explaining my views on macro economics and trade policies would deviate too much from this thread.
There is really nothing unusual about protecting Proton and nobody can argue in absolute terms that protectionism will doom the industry. The problem was the execution and the lack of a clear plan. As well as lacking in the "will of the people". |
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kesian la kat mamat thai ni...sure derang nyesal beli proton...muahahaha. |
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32# myra316
akai mamat Thai bukan macam akai ah beng mesia... depa tak heran la keta2 2nd class bau jepun tu.... ah beng je yg mudah terkagum |
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hak3...aku rasa kan, satu sebab nape keta Jepun jadik pilihan, adlh sebab jenamanya yang da kukuh dan diiktiraf di dunia..budak2 muda kat Europe, US yang dulunya langsung xpandang keta Jepun, skg da makin ramai yang kejar keta Jepun...maknanya brand Honda, Toyota, Mazda etc da mampu berdiri di dunia, dan dipandang tinggi oleh serata dunia.
kat Mesia ni, tmasuk aku lah, aku rasa nak dapatkan suatu produk yang memerlukan aliran duit yang banyak, pasti pikir banyak benda sebelum wat keputusan...kalu nak beli baju skali pun kita pasti tgk pada kualiti dan jenama...inikan kereta yang harganya berpuluh beratus ribu...bape kerat sgt yang mampu byr cash?...
bg aku, nak dpt sesuatu aku akan pikir kualitinya yang terjamin dan diiktiraf..harus diakui Proton lum betul2 dpt tmpt di mata dunia...berbeza ngan brand Jepun yg da lama bertapak...dan mampu bersaing dalam Formula 1 pn...
pndpt masing2, tp bg aku secara peribadi...aku currently lebih pcyakan brand impot berbanding brand local...bukan nak blagak, tp tuk kepuasan membeli...teknologi Proton still ketinggalan...kdg2, aku rasa tertipu masa pakai Proton dulu..hmmmhhh...papepun, moga Proton terus berkembang..n aku rasa kerajaan da sampai masa buka saingan supaya pihak Proton betul2 dalam R & D... |
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ala..cite mr bean pon pakai proton selamba jek.. |
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35# cmf_toaster
hehe...iswara, masuk bola golf sbiji kat ekzos, berasap itam bile stat..camtu je taraf proton kat UK?...huk3 kecik ati kawan |
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35# cmf_toaster
hehe...iswara, masuk bola golf sbiji kat ekzos, berasap itam bile stat..camtu je taraf proton kat UK?...huk3 kecik ati kawan
apih13 Post at 24-12-2009 18:38 
last2 cite pasal wira bumbung berkarat dan iswara 20thn.. ah beng ah beng
prrrtfhh |
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Pehh...mulianye Mr Bean pd mata org mesia...pas tu hinanye Proton sbb beli Lotus... |
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kete apa ni...
BLM ke...
kat mana ni... |
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Post time 22-12-2009 02:22 PM
Author
