Pembunuh-pembunuh Khalifah.

mnm77

Rejection of a Nabi is Kufr. One who does not believe in a Nabi is a Kaafir. This is the belief of Islam. But according to the Shi抋h religion, belief in Imaamat is Fardh just as Fardh as it is to believe in Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam). According to Shi抜sm, one who denies any of the Shi抜 Imaams

mnm77

In explanation of the verse, "On the day when the wrongdoer bites his hands saying, "Oh if only I had taken the right path with the Prophet. Oh woe is me, if only I had not taken so and so as a friend". Al-Qummee said that "so and so" refers to Umar. Concerning Talhah and az-Zubayr, al-Qummee claims Abu Ja'far said that the following verse was revealed about them, "Verily the doors of the sky will not open for those who deny our signs and are arrogant towards them, nor will they enter paradise until a camel passes through the eye of a needle". And he added that the camel in the verse refers to their camel.

One of their leading scholars, al-Kashshee, reported that Abu Ja'far said, "The people (including the Sahaabah) all became apostates after the Prophet's death except for three". When asked who they were, he replied, "AI-Miqdaad On al-Aswad, Abu Dharr and Salmaan as mentioned in the verse, 'if he (Muhammad) dies or is killed will you turn on your heels".

When Professor al-Basheer al-Ibraaheemee, the top Algerian scholar, visited Iraq, he came across a three volume book called az-Zahraa, published by the scholars of Najaf. It states that Ameer al-Mumineen, 'Umar, was afflicted with a disease which could only be cured by drinking human semen. Another book in Persian called Kasf al-Asraar (Revelation of the Secrets) was published there by the leader of the rapprochement movement, Aayatullaah al-Khomeini. On page 112, Abu Bakr is described as having gone astray while on page 114 'Umar is called a heretic.

There are many other statements in their books slandering Abu Bakr, 'Aaeshah, the rest of the Prophet's wives as well as the Sahaabah in general; however, for the sake of brevity what we have narrated will suffice.

All who do not follow their creed are considered disbelievers. "Doubt about the Imaamate of Wee is like doubt about the mission of Muhammad (sallallahu alayhi wasallam). And one who doubts both should be killed if possible, if he claims to be Muslim. On the other hand, disbelievers are like the Jews and Christians and should not be killed for these reasons".

Gravedigger

Originally posted by mnm77 at 10-7-2007 06:51 PM
Apa pandangan bro Grave?

Rejection of a Nabi is Kufr. One who does not believe in a Nabi is a Kaafir. This is the belief of Islam. But according to the Shi抋h religion, belief in Imaamat is Fardh just as Fardh as it is t ...

Kalau di dalam mazhab syiah sendiri terdapat beberapa pandangan. Kena fahami bahawa Syiah itu sendiri terbahagi kepada berbagai aliran daripada yang hampir dengan ASWJ sehinggalah yang berbeza dan bertentangan samasekali dengan ASWJ.
Majoriti pengikut syiah sekarang adalah dari aliran Ithna-Asya'ariyah namun ia juga berpecah kepada dua aliran iaitu golongan Akhbari dan golongan Usulli. Dalam mentafsirkan hadis-hadis ini daripada Ahlul-Bait,  puak akhbari ini adalah seperti wahabi juga yang mengikutnya hanya secara lateral. Justeru  golongan ini  agak keras menghadapi golongan yang tidak mahu mengikuti Ahlul-Bait....manakala golongan Usulli pula mentafsirkan hadis-hadis  ini dasarkan akal pemikiran. Ada dua pandangan  dalam isu terhadap ASWJ ini.  Bagi musuh-musuh syiah, adalah mudah untuk mengambil pandangan golongan Akhbari ini dan secara borongnya menyerang syiah secara menyeluruh.

Sebagai rujukan silalah rujuk....
http://www.akhbari.org/homepage.htm

Kalau saya seperti bro di sana...saya akan mencari orang-orang syiah disana untuk terus dapatkan maklumat yang lebih jelas lagi. Terdapat juga sahabat-sahabat yang further studies di sana yang pada mulanya bersikap anti-syiah tapi apabila dah dapat sumber yang lebih jelas maka mereka sudah berubah sekembali ke Malaysia. Bagi saya pula, tabligh yang pernah saya ikuti dulu mendidik supaya lebih berani untuk berjumpa terus orang-orang tertentu atas usaha ilmu agama. Alhamdulillah...wahabi dan syiah telah saya ikuti pengajian kedua-duanya dan boleh saya pertimbangka. The choice is mine..right?

Gravedigger

Originally posted by mnm77 at 10-7-2007 07:10 PM
Another book in Persian called Kasf al-Asraar (Revelation of theSecrets) was published there by the leader of the rapprochementmovement, Aayatullaah al-Khomeini. On page 112, Abu Bakr is describedas having gone astray while on page 114 'Umar is called a heretic.

Satu lagi fitnah terhadap terhadap Imam Khomeini dan jawapannya ada di sini.
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg24562.html

Berkenaan dengan Umar tu biasa juga dengar. Boleh tak berikan full version atau cerita penuh supaya boleh kita pertimbangkan. Biasanya kalau orang-orang syiah mengkritik sahabat akan disertakan dengan lengkap cerita-cerita latarbelakangnya. Elok juga kita baca supaya boleh mempertimbangkan sama ada wajar ataupun tidak.

mnm77

Originally posted by Gravedigger at 13-7-2007 01:23 AM

[quote]Originally posted by mnm77 at 10-7-2007 07:10 PM
Another book in Persian called Kasf al-Asraar (Revelation oftheSecrets) was published there by the leader of therapprochementmovement, Aayatullaah al-Khomeini. On page 112, Abu Bakris describedas having gone astray while on page 114 'Umar is called aheretic.

Satu lagi fitnah terhadap terhadap Imam Khomeini dan jawapannya ada di sini.
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg24562.html

Berkenaan dengan Umar tu biasa juga dengar. Boleh tak berikan fullversion atau cerita penuh supaya boleh kita pertimbangkan. Biasanyakalau orang-orang syiah mengkritik sahabat akan disertakan denganlengkap cerita-cerita latarbelakangnya. Elok juga kita baca supayaboleh mempertimbangkan sama ada wajar ataupun tidak. [/quote]

Bro, rujukan yang diberi dari kitab dalam Bahasa Parsi bang, yang bro kata fitnah tu terjemahan Arabnya (dari email rujukan tu).

Berkenaan kisah Umar (R.A), bro pun dah ngaku biasa dengar. So eloklah bro berikan versi yang lengkap dari kitab2 rujukan bro, boleh kita selidik kesahihannya. Bukan apa, hanya versi syiah saja yang membuat tuduhan melampau pada Umar (R.A). Dan kalau syiah benar, usah malu2 sampaikan.

JieShiang

that's the problem when u don't learn from the right sources and right people...i.e. to understand shia.. but learn and korek info from sunni or wahabi sources...

sukabest

sape bole bagi aku hadis atau riwayat(sahih) yg mengatakan Nabi Muhammad S.A.W pernah menceritakan/mencari keburukan para sahabatnya.

lagi satu ape kebaikan yg kita dapat kalau kita menceritakan/mencari keburukan/kesalahan (jika benar ada) para sahabat Nabi Muhammad S.A.W

Wallahu'alam.

JieShiang

i think it's more reasonable and more probable that most followers went astray after the demise of Muhammad... because the qoran told many stories about other messengers and their went-astray followers...i.e. Nuh, Musa, Salleh, etc. What's so speacial about Muhammad? Is he better than the rests.... is his case unique? Whats purpose of God telling people the stories in quran anyway, if not for guidance to muslims at present?

JieShiang

Originally posted by sukabest at 13-7-2007 06:05 PM
sape bole bagi aku hadis atau riwayat(sahih) yg mengatakan NabiMuhammad S.A.W pernah menceritakan/mencari keburukan para sahabatnya.

lagi satu ape kebaikan yg kita dapat kalau kita menceritak ...

Quran is closer to muslims than hadith... in Quran there're many placesthat xplain about the misguidance of Muhammad followers..... those whoran away from the battle... those who talk loudly in front of Muhammad,...those who failed to go for jihad, etc... were mentioned in theQoran..... all those were sahabat.....

JieShiang

lagi satu ape kebaikan yg kita dapat kalau kita menceritakan/mencarikeburukan/kesalahan (jika benar ada) para sahabat Nabi Muhammad S.A.W

when u know and can differentiate who were the culprits and who werethe rightly guided among the so called "sahabat".. then it's easy andwise for u to follow and korek info/knowledge from the guided ones..otherwise u will also be misguided...  and start to believe inhadiths that were narrated by the Jews among the sahabat...

mnm77

Originally posted by Gravedigger at 13-7-2007 01:12 AM
Bagi saya pula, tabligh yang pernah saya ikuti dulu mendidik supayalebih berani untuk berjumpa terus orang-orang tertentu atas usaha ilmuagama. Alhamdulillah...wahabi dan syiah telah saya ikuti pengajiankedua-duanya dan boleh saya pertimbangka. The choice is mine..right?

Yes, the choice is yours.

Bro banyak mempertahankan Jemaah Tabligh jika ada yang melemparkan fitnah, dan itu sekadar pemerhatian saya.

Pimpinan Jemaah Tabligh tidak megeluarkan fatwa tentang kesesatan mana2 kumpulan/mazhab, namun rujukan saya dari  alim-ulama yang berada dalam Jemaah Tabligh, tiada satu pun yang memberi pandangan positif pasal syiah, bahkan menasihatkan supaya amat berhati-hati dengan syiah. Syiah tidak diiktiraf ASWJ dan Jemaah Tabligh adalah usaha menyeru manusia kepada Allah cara Sunnah (justeru ASWJ), syiah tidak diterima sama sekali.

Walaupun ada usaha untuk penyatuan kedua-duanya (syiah-sunnah), adalah hampir mustahil kedua-duanya akan bersatu disebabkan rujukan yang berbeza yang menyebabkan timbulnya bibit2 kebencian khususnya kepada para sahabat (dan syiah mempertahankan rujukan mereka sahih).

Saya pernah jumpa karkun Tabligh (sebagai beberapa individu bukannya satu jemaah) dari Iran dan mereka kata mereka ASWJ bukannya syiah. Bukannya sekali saya jumpa. Kalau mereka syiah tentunya mereka tidak akan menerima kisah2 kelebihan sahabat2 nabi R.Anhum seperti Abu Bakr dan Umar, bahkan menyampaikan kisah2 kelebihan sahabat2 ni. Di Iran sendiri bukannya sedikit ASWJ, cuma pimpinan Iran yang menyebabkan mereka ni tenggelam. Berita yang saya perolehi ramai syiah di Iran telah mengikut ASWJ (sunnah) cuba tidak dihebah-hebahkan disebabkan untuk tidak menimbulkan huru-hara.

Tidak dapat dinafikan, sudah jelas dalam kitab2 syiah yang menyatakan ASWJ kafir dan halal dibunuh, tetapi Ulama2 syiah seperti Khomeini bertaqiyyah menyatakan sebaliknya. Dalam ASWJ, dan rujukan saya dari Ulama2 saya percayai, syiah adalah bukan Islam, dan kalau yang boleh diterima Islam pun hanya yang tidak mengkafirkan sahabat2 nabi. Namun, dalam ASWJ tiada fatwa yang membolehkan syiah dibunuh. Cuma apabila diserang itu dibolehkan. Konflik syiah-sunnah yang berlaku bertambah parah bila ada pihak ketiga yang suka melihat syiah-sunnah bergaduh (Amerika-Israel). Dan di kalangan ASWJ pun ada juga yang ekstrem berbunuhan dan yang ni bukannya pegangan ASWJ yang sebenarnya.

Bro pernah bertabligh, dan masih mempertahankan tabligh, dan pada masa yang sama mempertahankan syiah. Kalau bro mempertahankan tabligh, bro kenalah juga mempertahankan sahabat2 nabi apabila mereka dihina, jika tidak itu taqiyyah yang akan terus menjadi bara api dalam umat Islam, mungkin niat baik tapi kesan buruk bertaqiyyah adalah sungguh bahaya.

Syiah mempertahankan taqiyyah bila nyawa terancam. Tapi bila nyawa tak terancam pun banyak yang mengamalkannya, itu sudah menjadi pendustaan. Firman Allah dalam Al Quran, laknat Allah ke atas pendusta-pendusta.

Mohon maaf atas segala kesalahan penyampaian saya dan yang mana kurang berhemah. Semoga Allah memberi hidayah kepada kita semua.

[ Last edited by  mnm77 at 13-7-2007 06:38 PM ]

mnm77

Originally posted by JieShiang at 13-7-2007 06:14 PM


Quran is closer to muslims than hadith... in Quran there're many placesthat xplain about the misguidance of Muhammad followers..... those whoran away from the battle... those who talk loudly  ...

Can you give proof that Taqiyyah (as practised by shia) is allowed in Quran?

mnm77

Originally posted by JieShiang at 13-7-2007 05:55 PM
that's the problem when u don't learn from the right sources and right people...i.e. to understand shia.. but learn and korek info from sunni or wahabi sources...

Syiah nak ahli sunnah percayakan rujukan syiah? Kena percaya, lepas tu dah percaya maka terima syiah. Bukan itu caranya. Kena kaji rujukan, dan telah ramai Ulama terdahulu telah kaji syiah:

Early Scholars

Imaam ash-Shaafi`ee
On one occasion ash-Shaafi`ee said concerning the Shi`ites, "I havenot seen among the heretics a people more famous for falsehood than theRaafidite Shi`ites." [Ibn Taymeeyah, Minhaaj as-Sunnah an-Nabawiyyah,1/39]
On another occasion he said, "Narrate knowledge from everyone you meetexcept the Raafidite Shi`ites, because they invent Hadeeths and adopt them aspart of their religion." [Ibid, p. 38]

Imaam Abu Haneefah
It was reported that often Abu Haneefah used to repeat the followingstatement about the Shi`ites, "Whoever doubts whether they aredisbelievers has himself committed disbelief."

Imaam Maalik
Once Maalik was asked about them and he replied, "Do not speak to themnor narrate from them, for surely they are liars." [Minhaaj as-Sunnah,1/37]
During a class of Imaam Maalik, it was mentioned that the Raafidite Shi`itescurse the Sahaabah. In reply, he quoted the Quranic verse, "Muhammad isthe Messenger of Allah and those with him are harsh with the disbelievers andgentle among themselves. So that the disbelievers may become enraged withthem." He then said, "Whoever becomes enraged when the Sahaabah arementioned is one about whom the verse speaks." [Tafseeer al-Qurtubee,Soorah al-Fath; Editor's note: That is, anyone who is enraged by the mention ofthe Sahaabah is a disbeliever, because the verse says, "...thedisbelievers may become enraged with them (Sahaabah)."]

Ibn al-Mubaarak
Ibn al-Mubaarak was reported to have said, "Religion is gained fromAhl al-Hadeeth, scholastic theology and crafty exemptions from religiousordinances of Ahl ar-Ray and lies from the Raafidite Shi`ites."[Adh-Dhahabee, al Muntaqaa min Minhaaj al-I`tidaal, p. 480]

Abu Zur`ah ar-Raazee
This great scholar was quoted as saying, "If you see someone degradeany of the companions of the Prophet, sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam, know thathe is a disbeliever. Because the Prophet, sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam, wasreal, what he brought was the truth and all of it was conveyed to us by the wayof the Sahaabah. What those disbelievers wish to do is to cast doubt on thereliability of our narrators in order to invalidate the Quraan and the Sunnah.Thus the disbelievers are the ones most deserving defamation."

Al-Qaadee Abu Ya`laa
It was reported that Abu Ya`laa said, "The position of juristsconcerning one who curses the Sahaabah, believing that such an act ispermissible, is that he has committed an act of disbelief. If he curses thembut does not believe that cursing them is permissible, then he is guilty ofimmorality, and not disbelief." [Ibn Taymeeyah, as-Sawaarim al-Maslool, p.569]

At-Tahaawee
In his book on the Islamic creed, al-`Aqeedah at-Tahaawiyyah, the authorstates, "We love the companions of Allaah's Prophet, sallallaahu `alayhiwasallam, without going overboard in our love of anyone of them or remainingaloof (tabarra) from any of them. We hate those who hate them or speak ill ofthem and we only speak well of them. Loving them is a religious act, and anexpression of faith and righteousness while hating them is an act of disbelief,hypocrisy and transgression." [Sharh al-`Aqeedah at-Tahaawiyyah, p. 528]

Ibn Hazm al-Andaloosee
One day during the period of Muslim rule in Spain, Imaam Abu Muhammad ibnHazm was having a debate with some Spanish Catholic priests about theirreligious texts. He brought before them evidence of textual distortions in theBible and the loss of original manuscripts. When they replied by pointing outto him Shi`ite claims also being distorted, Ibn Hazm informed them that"Shi`ite could not be used as evidence against the Quraan or againstMuslims because they are not themselves Muslims." [Ibn Hazm, al-Fisaal feeal-Milal wa an-Nihal, 2/78 and 4/182]
Their claims have been rebutted by numerous other early scholars like IbnTaymeeyah in Minhaaj as-Sunnah, adh-Dhahabee in Muntaqaa min Minhaajal-I`tidaal, Ibn Katheer in his history book [al-Bidaayah wa an-Nihaayah], Ibnal-Jawzee in Talbees Iblees, and al-Qaadee ibn al-`Arabee in al-`Awwaasim minal-Qawaasim.

[ Last edited by  mnm77 at 13-7-2007 06:48 PM ]

mnm77

Contemporary Scholars

Imaam al-Aloosee
He declared the Raafidite Shi'ites disbelievers because of their defamation of the Sahaabah. His position was based on the rulings of Imam Malik and other scholars who were in agreement with him. In reply to their claim to be Ahl Bayt (the Prophet's  sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam family), al-Aloosee said, "No, they are really followers of the Devils and Ahl Bayt are innocent of them."

Muhibbuddeen al-Khateeb
This scholar wrote a book on them called al Khutoot al-'Areedah lil-Usus allatee Qaama 'Alayhaa Deen ash-Shee'ah al-Ithnay 'Ashreeyah (lit. Broad outlines of the basis for the Twelver Shi'ite Creed). He also footnoted earlier works on the Shee'ah like Al-Muntaqaa and 'Awaasim min al-Qaqaasim. In all of his works he considers the Shi'ites to be disbelievers.

Bahjat al-Baitaar
When this great Syrian scholar was asked if transactions were permissible with Shi'ites, he replied in a book called Al-Islaam wa as-Sahaabah al-Kiraam bain as-Sunnah wa ash-Shee'ah in which he said, "Political and economic dealings with them are allowed in the same way that they are allowed with states and people with whom there are treaties in spite of differences between their lands and religions and ours. And help can only be sought from Allah."

Muhammad Rasheed Ridaa
This scholar was among those who worked sincerely for rapproachment between the Sunnites and the Shi'ites, and they in turn pretended moderation for his benefit. However, in the midst of his efforts they caught him by surprise by presenting him with some of their books which slandered Islaam. He then replied to them in a paper called As-Sunnah wa ash-Shee'ah in which he exposed their doctrines and idolatrous practices.

Dr. Hilaalee
After living closely to the Shi'ites for some years, the famous Morrocan scholar, Dr Hilaalee, wrote a paper on them in which he declared them disbelievers.

Al-Basheer al-Ibraaheemee
While visiting Iraq, this professor who is the leading religious scholar in Algeria saw with his own eyes the Shi'ite book, Az-Zahraa, in which 'Umar ibn al-Khataab - may Allah be pleased with him - is accused of homosexuality. On his return home to Algeria he exposed the Shi'ites and clearly outlined their principle beliefs and practices.

Mustafaa as-Sibaa'ee
This eminent Palestinian scholar was also among those who lived with the Shi'ites for a period and worked for rapproachment with them; however, he soon discovered their real intentions and noted them in the foreword of his classic, As-Sunnah wa Makaanatuhaa. He wrote, "Those people continue to hold fast to their books in which slanderous attacks and false descriptions are given of the incidents of disagreement among the Sahaabah. Hence their intention behing the call to rapprochement seems to be bringing the Sunnites closer to the Shi'ite creed and not bringing them closer to each other."
On another occasion, he wrote, "A Muslim would almost be in a state of total bewilderment and confusion at the audacity of these people towards Allah's Messenger sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam were it not for his knowledge that most of the Raafidites are Persians. Some Persians feigned Islaam and used Shi'ism as a cover for the destruction of Islaam. There were also among the Persians those who were unable to free themselves from the effects of their former religions and thus they entered Islaam with a pagan mentality which did not mind telling lies about the Prophet sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam"

Abul-A'laa al-Maududi
This Pakistani scholar and leader wrote an introduction to the book, Ar-Riddah bain al-Ams wa al-Yaum (lit. Apostasy in the Past and the Present) by Muhammad KaadHim Habeeb published in 1977. In it the author wrote of the Imaami Ja'fari Shi'ites, "In spite of their moderate views (relative to other sects of Shi'ism), they are swimming in disbelief like white blood cells in blood or like fish in water." Maududi supported these views by praising the author and recommending that the book be done in hardback.


The Mirage in Iran by Dr. Ahmad al-Afghaanee
Edited and Translated by: Abu Ameena Bilal Philips

[ Last edited by  mnm77 at 13-7-2007 06:52 PM ]

mnm77

Originally posted by JieShiang at 13-7-2007 06:06 PM
i think it's more reasonable and more probable that most followers wentastray after the demise of Muhammad... because the qoran told manystories about other messengers and their went-astray followers...i.e.Nuh, Musa, Salleh, etc. What's so speacial about Muhammad? Is he betterthan the rests.... is his case unique? Whats purpose of God tellingpeople the stories in quran anyway, if not for guidance to muslims atpresent?

Even in Quran there are ayaat mentioning the superiority of sahabah (the Early Generation of the Follower of Muhammad SAW) over the later people.

The Quran says, you (ummat of Muhammad and sahabah are the best example of the ummat of Muhamaad) are the best nation calling people to good and preventing evil.

After the demise of Prophet, Abu Bakr RA was very active in opposing the murtaddin (those who became apostate). This is what has been mentioned in Quran and Hadith and he as the leader has done the right thing

During a class of Imaam Maalik, it was mentioned that the RaafiditeShi`ites curse the Sahaabah. In reply, he quoted the Quranic verse,"Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah and those with him are harsh withthe disbelievers and gentle among themselves. So that the disbelieversmay become enraged withthem." He then said, "Whoever becomes enragedwhen the Sahaabah are mentioned is one about whom the verse speaks."[Tafseeer al-Qurtubee,Soorah al-Fath; Editor's note: That is, anyonewho is enraged by the mention ofthe Sahaabah is a disbeliever, becausethe verse says, "...thedisbelievers may become enraged with them(Sahaabah)."]

[ Last edited by  mnm77 at 13-7-2007 07:37 PM ]

ibnur

Originally posted by mnm77 at 13-7-2007 06:45 PM
Syiah nak ahli sunnah percayakan rujukan syiah? Kena percaya, lepas tu dah percaya maka terima syiah. Bukan itu caranya. Kena kaji rujukan, dan telah ramai Ulama terdahulu telah kaji syiah:

Selepas dari pembunuhan Saidina Uthman dan peperangan Jamal dan Siffin.  Ada beribu-ribu hadith palsu pasal politik.  Dan kalau kita tengok juga sejarah yang dibukukan.  Semuanya boleh kata masa zaman Abbasiyah.  Bukan nak kata kerajaan Abbasiyah memburukkan kerajaan Umayyah, tapi masih ada lagi penyokong-penyokong politik yang menggunakan jalur-jalur palsu untuk memelihara aliran dan fahaman masing-masing.

Tu yang nasihat-nasihat imam-imam tu berkata jangan ambil dari perawi syiah dan rafidhah.

JieShiang

Originally posted by mnm77 at 13-7-2007 06:39 PM


Can you give proof that Taqiyyah (as practised by shia) is allowed in Quran?

this is out of topic...

I think u should read your own Qoran.. isn't the word taqiyyah derived from the Qoran itself? what do u understand by that word anyway... and what do u mean by "taqiyyah as practised by shia"? Are u saying taqiyyah practised by shia different than taqiyyah practised by sunni? and what kind of taqiyyah r u refering to?

JieShiang

Originally posted by mnm77 at 13-7-2007 07:03 PM
Even in Quran there are ayaat mentioning the superiority of sahabah(the Early Generation of the Follower of Muhammad SAW) over the laterpeople.

The Quran says, you (ummat of Muhammad and sahabah are the best exampleof the ummat of Muhamaad) are the best nation calling people to goodand preventing evil.

If sahabah (referring to muslims who ever met Muhammad and lived during the time of Muhammad) were superior over the later people, why the sahabah killed each others in the three major battles... ? Isn't it silly to jump to the conclusion of your tafseer...esp muslims are not allowed to kill each others (mentioned in the Quran too). if they were superior, they should have given good examples to muslims ... see what happen nowadays, muslims kill each others esp. at Pakistan  now.. they follow the misguided sahabah... don't they? refer to what u have just quoted: Quranic verse,"Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah and those with him are harsh with the disbelievers and gentle among themselves". Is killing among themselves "gentle" by your definition?

[ Last edited by  JieShiang at 14-7-2007 12:38 PM ]

Gravedigger

Originally posted by mnm77 at 13-7-2007 05:53 PM
Bro, rujukan yang diberi dari kitab dalam Bahasa Parsi bang, yang bro kata fitnah tu terjemahan Arabnya (dari email rujukan tu).

Berkenaan kisah Umar (R.A), bro pun dah ngaku biasa dengar. So eloklahbro berikan versi yang lengkap dari kitab2 rujukan bro, boleh kitaselidik kesahihannya. Bukan apa, hanya versi syiah saja yang membuattuduhan melampau pada Umar (R.A). Dan kalau syiah benar, usah malu2sampaikan.

Yang dikatakan fitnah ialah apa yang di tulis oleh Imam khomeini tidak diterjemahkan dengan betul oleh penterjemah melainkan untuk memburuk-burukkan kitab tersebut.

Kebohongan terjemahan Arab atas buku "Kasyful Asrar", seperti :
1. Dikatakan bahwa Imam Khomeini menyebut Abubakar dan Umar sebagai "Dua Berhala Quraisy". Dan kenyataannya tidak ada dalam teks aslinya.
2.Beliau (Imam Khomeini) dikatakan mencaci maki sahabat. Tidak ditemukan dalam teks aslinya.
3. Beliau mengatakan tentang syahid, yaitu : "Dan ia telah mengorbankan semua yang ada di jalan Allah". Yang diterjemahkan dalam bahasa Arab dengan "Wa khosaro ruhahu min ajlillahi ta'ala" (dan ia telah merugikan ruhnya lantaran Allah Ta'ala). Yang kemudian si penerjemah mencaci maki Imam Khomeini.
4. Ketika beliau menyebut "markaz tasayyu'" (tempat para syi'ah), kemudian diterjemahkan dengan "mamlaka asy-syi'ah" (Kerajaan syi'ah raya).
5. Kata "riwayah" diterjemahkan dengan "hikayah".
6. Kata "turabul ahya' wahibun lil hayati" (tanah/bumi yang akan memberi kehidupan). Diterjemahkan dengan "At-turbatu wahbatu lil hayati" (batu itu pemberi kehidupan). Yang dengan kebohongan di atas, penerjemah dan pemberi catatan pinggir atas penerjemahan tersebut, telah mencaci maki Imam Khomeini sebagai kafir, pembohong, fanatik parsi, dll. Sama seperti ucapan Ibu Ros, dll. Dan masih banyak lagi kebohongan dan kebodohan penerjemah dan pemberi catatan pinggir, dalam menterjemahkan dan mengomentari Kasyful Asrar.

Dalam kes Umar pula yang dikatakan sebagai homoseks bukankah yang kena tuduh memburukkan beliau dikatakan datang dari syiah.... so nak tahu jugak dari kitab syiah mana yang mengatakan seperti itu. Biasanya kalau ulama-ulama syiah menceritakan tentang sejarah sahabat biasanya mereka menyebutnya secara details dan bukannya secara umum saja seperti Hayatus-Sahabah rujukan orang Tabligh. Elok juga kalau ada cerita-cerita seperti itu yang boleh kita pertimbangkan betul atau salahnya.

Gravedigger

Originally posted by sukabest at 13-7-2007 06:05 PM
sape bole bagi aku hadis atau riwayat(sahih) yg mengatakan NabiMuhammad S.A.W pernah menceritakan/mencari keburukan para sahabatnya.

Ada banyak hadis yang menyatakan tentang sahabat yang berpaling dari selepas ketiadaan Rasulullah saaw tapi cukuplah satu ni dulu...

.Hadis no.585.Abu Hazim daripada Sahl bin Sa慸 daripada Nabi (Saw.) Nabi (Saw.) bersabda: Aku akan mendahului kamu di Haudh.Dan siapa yang akan melaluinya akan miminumnya.Dan siapa yang meminumnya tidak akan dahaga selama-lamanya.Akan datang kepadaku beberapa orang yang aku kenali,dan mereka juga mengenaliku.Kemudian dihalang di antaraku dan mereka.Abu Hazim berkata : Nu憁an bin Abi
慽yasy berkata selepas mendengarku: Adakah anda telah
mendengar
sedemikian daripada Sahl? Aku menjawab:Ya.Aku naik saksi bahawa aku telah mendengar Abu Sa 慽d al-Khudri berkata perkara yang sama,malah dia menambah:Nabi (Saw.) bersabda:Aku akan bersabda: mereka itu adalah daripadaku (ashabi).Maka dijawab: 揝esungguhnya anda tidak mengetahui apa yang dilakukan oleh mereka selepas anda meninggalkan mereka Aku akan bersabda:Jauh!Jauh! (daripada rahmat Allah) /ke Neraka mereka yang telah mengubah/menukarkan (hukum Allah dan Sunnahku) selepasku (suhqan suhqan li-man ghayyara ba慸i) 擺/font]
Abu Hurairah berkata bahawa Rasulullah (Saw.) bersabda: Sekumpulan daripada para sahabatku akan datang kepadaku di Hari Kiamat.kemudian mereka akan diusir jauh dari Haudh.Maka aku akan bersabda:Wahai Tuhanku!mereka itu adalah para sahabatku (ashabi).Dijawab:Sesungguhnya anda tidak mengetahui apa
yang mereka lakukan selepas anda meninggalkan mereka (inna-ka la
慽lma la-ka bima ahdathu ba慸a-ka)Sesungguhnya mereka telah menjadi kafir-murtad kebelakang (irtaddu
慳la a憅abi-bi-himu l-Qahqariyy)

lagi satu ape kebaikan yg kita dapat kalau kita menceritakan/mencarikeburukan/kesalahan (jika benar ada) para sahabat Nabi Muhammad S.A.W

Kalau dah jelas ada sahabat2 yang terpesong maka apakah perlu lagi kita mengikut dan menjanjung mereka? Inilah tujuan sejarah supaya kita memperolehi iktibar darinya. Ia perlu dibongkar dan bukan membutakan mata terhadapnya.