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loona,
Well, if you agree to that, than that settles the whole problem here. |
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Originally posted by barney50 at 3-11-2006 10:26 PM
Please understand how Islam began. When Mohammed had a few followers he was humble but was mocking the pagans of Mecca and so he was driven off. When he was able to gather force in Medina he was brave and came with full force and the sword was his strength. That is the real truth how Islam was spread in Mecca and the neighbouring states. |
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- responded by Oreng:
- How did Prophet Muhammad get His followers grew ? At the time He was in Mecca, his followers grew somewhere else ie in Medina. When He migrated to Medina and resided, after constant harassment by the Meccans, His followers grew in Mecca. That is a miracle. Only then, he entered Mecca peacefully, no bloodshed. BTW, Mecca is His homeland. Nothing wrong going back to our hometown, right ? It is not like you, who want to overstay in Malay land while your homeland is in hindu India.
Oreng of Oreng,
Still blind to reality uh!? Nothing miraclous about your prophet. Please read this to understand:
- Mohammed and the Muslims became a stench in the nostrils of the Meccans and others with commercial interests in the region. Thus, in 625, the Meccans sent an army numbering about 3,000 against Medina, the city where Mohammed and the Muslims had fled to when they escaped from Mecca several years before. Mohammed elected to meet this army on the field of battle, and the Muslims were seriously defeated, with Mohammed himself being wounded and sent fleeing from the battlefield. Because of internal dissentions, the Meccans failed to follow up on their advantage and pursue the Muslims. Two years later, though, they returned and attempted to lay siege to Medina. Being forewarned of the Meccan return, Mohammed acted upon the advice of a Persian friend and ordered a ditch dug around the weaker defence quarters of Medina as protection. This artifice, previously unknown in Arabia, hindered the Meccans and their allies, who lifted the siege and departed 39.
- After this "victory" Mohammed and the Muslims became encouraged, and stepped up their raiding behaviour. Many Bedouin tribes were drawn to the Muslim circle by the military victories and prospects of treasure, adding their strength to Mohammed's. It was at this time that Mohammed finished the expulsion of the several Jewish tribes from Medina, and expropriated their lands and properties for himself and his followers.
- Victory over Mecca was finally obtained in 630 AD. Using an insignificant incident to provoke a clash of arms, Mohammed led his followers against Mecca, this just a year after Mohammed had signed a ten year peace treaty with that city. The Meccans, who were recognising the solidification of Mohammed's power and the ascendancy of his arms, folded with barely a fight, and the Muslims entered victoriously into the city. As a result of these years of piracy, Muhammed had amassed great personal wealth and power, and Arab tribes from all over the peninsula flocked to him.
http://www.studytoanswer.net/myths_ch5.html#ch5-1 |
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Originally posted by barney50 at 15-11-2006 12:13 PM
Oreng of Oreng,
Still blind to reality uh!? Nothing miraclous about your prophet. Please read this to understand:
Mohammed and the Muslims became a stench in the nostrils of the Meccans and others with commercial interests in the region. .... the Muslims were seriously defeated, with Mohammed himself being wounded and sent fleeing from the battlefield. Because of internal dissentions, the Meccans failed to follow up on their advantage and pursue the Muslims. ...
After this "victory" Mohammed and the Muslims became encouraged, and stepped up their raiding behaviour. Many Bedouin tribes were drawn to the Muslim circle by the military victories and prospects of treasure, adding their strength to Mohammed's. It was at this time that Mohammed finished the expulsion of the several Jewish tribes from Medina, and expropriated their lands and properties for himself and his followers.
Victory over Mecca was finally obtained in 630 AD. .... The Meccans, who were recognising the solidification of Mohammed's power and the ascendancy of his arms, folded with barely a fight, and the Muslims entered victoriously into the city. As a result of these years of piracy, Muhammed had amassed great personal wealth and power, and Arab tribes from all over the peninsula flocked to him.
Read back your source again Mr Barney especially the underlined words.
What do you think about the author?
What war/wars that the author wrote about Mr Barney, if you are really want to know about our beloved Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)?
What his/her motive of writing if he/she is contracting his own writing and even contradicting to the well known stories about Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).
Do you still remember what Mahatma Gandi stated about Prophet Muhammad "
'I become more than ever convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme for life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet, the scrupulous regard for his pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and his own mission. These and not the sword, carried everything before them and surmounted every trouble.'
(M.K. Gandhi, Young India, 1924).
and again from your source at http://www.hvk.org/articles/0403/196.html
" "The newspaper report that about a fortnight ago my eldest son Harilal, now nearing fifty years, accepted Islam and that on Friday last 29th May in the midst of a large congregation in the Juma Masjid at Bombay he was permitted to announce his acceptance amid great acclamation and that after his speech was finished, he was besieged by his admirers who vied with one another to shake hands with him. If his acceptance was from the heart and free from any worldly considerations, I should have no quarrel. For I believe Islam to be as true a religion as my own. "
Read also the following from HRH, The Prince of Wales, Islam And The West
. . . we have underestimated the importance of 800 years of Islamic society and culture in Spain between the 8th and 15th centuries. The contribution of Muslim Spain to the preservation of classical learning during the Dark Ages, and to the first flowering of the Renaissance, has long been recognized. But Islamic Spain was much more than a mere larder where Hellenistic knowledge was kept for later consumption by the emerging modern world. Not only did Muslim Spain gather and preserve the intellectual content of ancient Greek and Roman civilization, it also interpreted and expanded upon that civilization, and made a vital contribution of its own in so many fields of human endeavour -- in science, astronomy, mathematics, algebra (itself an Arabic word), law, history, medicine, pharmacology, optics, agriculture, architecture, theology, music. Averroes and Avenzoor, like their counterparts Avicenna and Rhazes in the East, contributed to the study and practice of medicine in ways from which Europe benefited for centuries afterwards.
Islam nurtured and preserved the quest for learning. In the words of (the Prophet's) tradition "the ink of the scholar is more sacred than the blood of the martyr." Cordoba in the 10th century was by far the most civilized city of Europe. We know of lending libraries in Spain at the time King Alfred was making terrible blunders with the culinary arts in this country. It is said that the 400,000 volumes of its ruler's library amounted to more books than all the of the rest of Europe put together. That was made possible because the Muslim world acquired from China the skill of making paper more than four hundred years before the rest of non-Muslim Europe. Many of the traits on which Europe prides itself came to it from Muslim Spain. Diplomacy, free trade, open borders, the techniques of academic research, of anthropology, etiquette, fashion, alternative medicine, hospitals, all came from this great city of cities. Mediaeval Islam was a religion of remarkable tolerance for its time, allowing Jews and Christians to practice their inherited beliefs, and setting an example which was not, unfortunately, copied for many centuries in the West. The surprise, ladies and gentlemen, is the extent to which Islam has been a part of Europe for so long, first in Spain, then in the Balkans, and the extent to which it has contributed so much towards the civilization which we all too often think of, wrongly, as entirely Western. Islam is part of our past and present, in all fields of human endeavour. It has helped to create modern Europe. It is part of our own inheritance, not a thing apart. ( http://www.twf.org/Library/Renaissance.html ) |
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GErakan
- responded by anta:
- 'I become more than ever convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme for life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet, the scrupulous regard for his pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and his own mission. These and not the sword, carried everything before them and surmounted every trouble.'
- (M.K. Gandhi, Young India, 1924).
Not surprising anta, coz he was a man of wisdom and would not want to hurt the feelings of Muslims who were also against the British rule in India. This is how poltcal minds would think and exercise their wisdom in order to win the people. He had no interest in dividing the Hindus and Muslims as what the British did. To gain the conficence of Muslims he has to be wise and not speak irrationaly like what the UMNO youth of Malaysia has done. They have hurt the feelings of non Muslims by way of showing their power to subdue which I think is stupid of them. They did not realize that if MCA, MIC, GERAKAN, Parti Keadilan, PPP, DAP and those in Sabah and Sarawak join a new coalition would UMNO alone win the general election? Think about it for a moment. It is united we stand and divided we fall. Without any of the componant parties do you think UMNO alone can stand on its own?
It is just the same and Gandhi is a very wise man, although he knew what Muslim invading forces had done in India, he never wanted to hurt the feelings of the present Muslims and so he said what he has to say inorder to win their side. Please use comon sense when you read such and understand the situation of time when he wrote as stated.
The Prince of Wales is no historian nor a research expert but a fool in his own capicity. So, hs praise for Islam means nothing to me because the British and the Muslims raped India. These two vermints have created a divided India and robbed her of her treasures and knowledge fo science and mathematics. I have no respect for them. |
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- responded by anta:
- 'I become more than ever convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme for life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet, the scrupulous regard for his pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and his own mission. These and not the sword, carried everything before them and surmounted every trouble.'
- (M.K. Gandhi, Young India, 1924).
Not surprising anta, coz he was a man of wisdom and would not want to hurt the feelings of Muslims who were also against the British rule in India. This is how poltcal minds would think and exercise their wisdom in order to win the people. He had no interest in dividing the Hindus and Muslims as what the British did. To gain the conficence of Muslims he has to be wise and not speak irrationaly like what the UMNO youth of Malaysia has done. They have hurt the feelings of non Muslims by way of showing their power to subdue which I think is stupid of them. They did not realize that if MCA, MIC, GERAKAN, Parti Keadilan, PPP, DAP and those in Sabah and Sarawak join a new coalition would UMNO alone win the general election? Think about it for a moment. It is united we stand and divided we fall. Without any of the componant parties do you think UMNO alone can stand on its own?
It is just the same and Gandhi is a very wise man, although he knew what Muslim invading forces had done in India, he never wanted to hurt the feelings of the present Muslims and so he said what he has to say inorder to win their side. Please use comon sense when you read such and understand the situation of time when he wrote as stated.
The Prince of Wales is no historian nor a research expert but a fool in his own capicity. So, hs praise for Islam means nothing to me because the British and the Muslims raped India. These two vermints have created a divided India and robbed her of her treasures and knowledge fo science and mathematics. I have no respect for them. |
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Originally posted by barney50 at 16-11-2006 01:16 PM
Not surprising anta, coz he was a man of wisdom and would not want to hurt the feelings of Muslims who were also against the British rule in India. This is how poltcal minds would think and exercise their wisdom in order to win the people.
....
....It is just the same and Gandhi is a very wise man, although he knew what Muslim invading forces had done in India, he never wanted to hurt the feelings of the present Muslims and so he said what he has to say inorder to win their side. Please use comon sense when you read such and understand the situation of time when he wrote as stated.
Barney oh Barney,
You stated that:
- Gandhi was a man of wisdom and would not want to hurt the feelings of Muslims
- Gandhi is a very wise man although he knew what Muslim invading forces had done in India
Wait a minute. Haven't you remember what you have posted earlier in Post #7 as follows with the thread title 'Secret Books of Muslims'
Originally posted by barney50 at 3-11-2006 10:43 AM
Anta,
May be Mr.Gandhi was not exposed to hadis Bukhari during his time as these books were only for Muslims. And here is what Ghandi said about his son Harilal's conversion to Islam :
My views on Islam are well known to the Mussalmans who are reported to have enthused over my son's profession. A brotherhood of Islam has telegraphed to me thus, " Expect like your son you truth-seeker to embrace Islam truest religion of world."
I must confess that all this has hurt me. ...
.....
http://www.hvk.org/articles/0403/196.html
From your above source Mr Barney at http://www.hvk.org/articles/0403/196.html , it was stated in the in the first paragraph as follows that Gandhi believed Islam to be as true a religion as his own.
"The newspaper report that about a fortnight ago my eldest son Harilal, now nearing fifty years, accepted Islam and that on Friday last 29th May in the midst of a large congregation in the Juma Masjid at Bombay he was permitted to announce his acceptance amid great acclamation and that after his speech was finished, he was besieged by his admirers who vied with one another to shake hands with him. If his acceptance was from the heart and free from any worldly considerations, I should have no quarrel. For I believe Islam to be as true a religion as my own. "
Just to recap from your source in the first paragraph, Mahatma Gandi said "For I believe Islam to be as true a religion as my own.
"
So you following sentences on common sense thing is really invalid as the selected writings of Gandhi compiled by SUNIL SHARMA and Published by Gandhi Book center, Bombay Sarvodaya Mandal, Mumbai- 400 007 were meant not want to hurt the feelings of 'HINDUS'
Originally posted by barney50 at 16-11-2006 01:16 PM
Please use comon sense when you read such and understand the situation of time when he wrote as stated
It seems to me that you are the one who is NOT USING your own common sense. So, next time please don't twist and do not lie Mr Barney.
Originally posted by barney50 at 16-11-2006 01:16 PM
He had no interest in dividing the Hindus and Muslims as what the British did. To gain the conficence of Muslims he has to be wise and not speak irrationaly like what the UMNO youth of Malaysia has done. They have hurt the feelings of non Muslims by way of showing their power to subdue which I think is stupid of them. They did not realize that if MCA, MIC, GERAKAN, Parti Keadilan, PPP, DAP and those in Sabah and Sarawak join a new coalition would UMNO alone win the general election? Think about it for a moment. It is united we stand and divided we fall. Without any of the componant parties do you think UMNO alone can stand on its own?
I respect Mahatma Gandhi.
Yes you are correct that UMNO alone will not win without the help of MCA, MIC, GERAKAN etc., however, without UMNO the parties such as MCA, MIC, GERAKAN will have a lot of problems. Yeah... United we stand and divided we fall. |
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- responded by anta:If his acceptance was from the heart and free from any worldly considerations, I should have no quarrel. For I believe Islam to be as true a religion as my own. "
Have you not noticed the "if" and "I believe". So, he believed so but instaed it was no as believed. These are words played by king makers and Gandhi was a king maker.
- responded by anta:Yes you are correct that UMNO alone will not win without the help of MCA, MIC, GERAKAN etc., however, without UMNO the parties such as MCA, MIC, GERAKAN will have a lot of problems. Yeah... United we stand and divided we fall.
What problum? You mean problem like what Mat Babi said "AMUK". That the Malays will run amuk? You must be joking. For all we know I think they can do better without UMNO. And as for PM of the country well the contsitution is silent about it. So any one can be if they have the majority. |
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Originally posted by barney50 at 17-11-2006 05:06 PM
responded by anta:If his acceptance was from the heart and free from any worldly considerations, I should have no quarrel. For I believe Islam to be as true a religion as my own. "
Have you not noticed the "if" and "I believe". So, he believed so but instaed it was no as believed. These are words played by king makers and Gandhi was a king maker.
Mr Barney. Lets split the above sentences from 'if his acceptance until my own' into 2 lines to make it more clearer i.e. from your own source at http://www.hvk.org/articles/0403/196.html (first paragraph).
Line 1 - If his acceptance was from the heart and free from any worldly considerations, I should have no quarrel.
Line 2 - For I believe Islam to be as true a religion as my own
Pls note the dot at the end of the first line before 'For I believe'. Line 1 was referring to Gandhi's son acceptance to Islam, whereas Line2 with 'For' in front of 'I believe' was referring to Gandi's believe (confidence,understanding) that Islam is as true a religion as Hindu.
Don't you noticed the differences?
As far as I can read from your many posts in this forum, the problem is in fact within you Mr Barney as a person who try to do on your own interpretation without proper context or proper references such as on Islam and Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).
And to my surprise, in the above post, you even add another title for Mr Gandhi as a 'king maker'.
Mr Barney, the above is just one example of your mis-interpretation.
Anta,
Bismi Allahi alrrahmani alrraheemi بِسْمِ اللّهِ الرَّحْمـَنِ الرَّحِيمِ
Narrated Abu Hurairah:
The Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) said, "Religion is very easy and whoever overburdens himself in his religion will not be able to continue in that way. So you should not be extremists, but try to be near to perfection and receive the good tidings that you will be rewarded; and gain strength by offering the Salat(prayers) in the mornings, afternoons and during the last hours of the nights." (See Fath Ab-Bari, Vol 1, Page 102) (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol. 1, Hadith No.38)
Islam is my way of life. |
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Author
Post time 15-11-2006 11:12 AM
