Secret Books of Muslims

benign

thus your stories about the secret books and stuff are indeed baseless. Thus no need to post the question in the first place, my friend. tsk tsk

barney50

benign,

It may be baseless to you becuase it speaks the truth. Cos these books were not written in this century but in the early part of Islam and words spoken from people who were close to Mohammed. So, it is your right to believe or not to believe but it if for us to know the truth. Otherwise you proof to me it bias and was fabricated stories. Can you please do that instead of just brushing it under the carpet.

benign

How do you know whether it really conveys truth? These people are asking for your source in order for US to study its accuracy.. Now.. you are not doing it aint you... Just name us your source..

No Source than its indeed baseless. So why we should waste our time? thank you.

barney50

benign,

Since you are lazy to search for it I'd give you the source.

http://voi.org/books/uith/ch12.htm.

Go read all you want and come back to discuss.

benign

i just viewed your source. The source itself is ANTI-ISLAM site. It preaches HINDU. Its pure slander and with the intent to DEFAME my religion.. even YOUR SOURCE didnt even put their SOURCE. how come???  BASELESS. PURE SLANDER.

i rest my case on this one. thank you.

barney50

1. responded by benign: just viewed your source. The source itself is ANTI-ISLAM site. It preaches HINDU. Its pure slander and with the intent to DEFAME my religion.. even YOUR SOURCE didnt even put their SOURCE. how come???  BASELESS. PURE SLANDER.
   
2. 
   
3. i rest my case on this one. thank you.

Copy the Code

You viewed nothing accept made your own conclution becuase it speaks the truth. Read below, is it not the verses from Quran? And below that is the analyse of the content. Tell me if it was wrongly analysed.






揥e [Allah] put thee [Muhammad] in the right way concerning affairs

benign

yes it is wrongly and narrowly analyzed with bad intent. Its an anti islam analysis, the analyst is an anti islam bigot.. what do you freakin expect???? WHAT DO YOU  EXPECT??? duh..

again do continue with your slander as i will no more waste my time to entertain to this baseless slander. hahaha..

THE STORY IS SLANDER. It was made up by a hindu bigot with the intention to downgrade the religion of others. the website which mr barney got all his stories about islam from is a HINDU WEBSITE (NOT AN ISLAMIC WEBSITE). thus theres no reason what so ever to waste any more time.

i rest my freaking case with a smile.

barney50

benign,

See what I said. Muslims like you would flare up when spoken the truth. I showed you the verse from the Quran and ask you if it is ture but you refuse to answer and call it slander. So you do not have the rationality to debate with me. Thank you anyway as I unseratand your fear in knowing the real truth about your religion.

Mgsrulz

Originally posted by barney50 at 3-11-2006 07:23 PM
benign,

Since you are lazy to search for it I'd give you the source.

http://voi.org/books/uith/ch12.htm.

Go read all you want and come back to discuss.

for some reason that link doesnt work on my end..
so i went to the main page,and clicked on this link: http://koenraadelst.voiceofdharma.com/articles/hinduism/wahi.html

i cant see any conclusive evidence of The Prophet's "ruthlessness"

furthermore,there are alot of opinions in that article.
one of them:

It was probably Swami Vivekananda who first connected the questionable nature of Mohammed's leadership with the nature of his prophethood. Mohammed had to be ruthless in imposing adherence to his belief in his own divine mission because this belief could not stand on its own, based as it was on a delusion.

that makes little sense..
if The Prophet had to be ruthless,he wouldnt have had ANY followers at all.

reason?
he was ALONE in his journey(in the beginning) and if he had been ruthless,the unbelievers would have struck him down without hesitation!

another thing,The Prophet was known as a good man,an honest man...he never lied.they even had names for him,which i cant remember at the moment,sorry.. but these were given to him BEFORE God sent Him His word.

he didnt have to be ruthless,all he had to do was preach God's words,and people believed it.

benign

Al Amin - Yang Jujur

btw.. link tu kat belakang dia ada titik.. buang titik tu

barney50

Mgsrulz,

Please understand how Islam began. When Mohammed had a few followers he was humble but was mocking the pagans of Mecca and so he was driven off. When he was able to gather force in Medina he was brave and came with full force and the sword was his strength. That is the real truth how Islam was spread in Mecca and the neighbouring states.

Mgsrulz

Originally posted by benign at 3-11-2006 10:18 PM
Al Amin - Yang Jujur

btw.. link tu kat belakang dia ada titik.. buang titik tu

lol...alamak..butanyer aku.... thanks:nerd:

Mgsrulz

Originally posted by barney50 at 3-11-2006 10:26 PM
Mgsrulz,

Please understand how Islam began. When Mohammed had a few followers he was humble but was mocking the pagans of Mecca and so he was driven off. When he was able to gather force in Medi ...

read the quote again:

Mohammed had to be ruthless in imposing adherence to his belief in his own divine mission because this belief could not stand on its own, based as it was on a delusion.

from my understanding of the quote above,the writer is trying to say he had to be ruthless from the beginning,as the religion could not stand on it's own.
but you've just acknowledged that the writer is wrong on that account since he was humble in the beginning..

barney50

1. responded by Magsrulz:from my understanding of the quote above,the writer is trying to say he had to be ruthless from the beginning,as the religion could not stand on it's own.
   
2. but you've just acknowledged that the writer is wrong on that account since he was humble in the beginning.

Copy the Code

When he said from the beginning ii means when Mohammed entered Mecca after gathering forces. That was the beginning the writter spoke of. You need to read and understand the content.

rurouni_khairul

Barney50, Muhammad (PBUH) has never hold grudge against the Meccans. He entered Mecca when the Meccans violated the Hudaibiyah Treaty by murdering one of the Arab clan's who allied to the Muslims. When to treaty has been violated it was agreed that the Muslims can go home to Mecca. By that time Muhammad (PBUH) lead around 50,000 soldiers but he enters Mecca peacefully and without any confrontation by the Meccans because they knew they had violated the treaty. The prophet (PBUH) has also gives warning for Meccans who did not wish to be hurt to stay in their house and they will not be hurt. This attitude which led to the mass conversion of the Meccans to Islam because in the end they realized that the man who they rejected and banished from Mecca in the beginning willing to forgive them for their cruelty against the Muslims.

[ Last edited by  rurouni_khairul at 13-11-2006 04:40 PM ]

barney50

1. responded by rurouni_khairul:
   
2. 
   
3. Barney50, Muhammad (PBUH) has never hold grudge against the Meccans. He entered Mecca when the Meccans violated the Hudaibiyah Treaty by murdering one of the Arab clan's who allied to the Muslims. When to treaty has been violated it was agreed that the Muslims can go home to Mecca. By that time Muhammad (PBUH) lead around 50,000 soldiers but he enters Mecca peacefully and without any confrontation by the Meccans because they knew they had violated the treaty. The prophet (PBUH) has also gives warning for Meccans who did not wish to be hurt to stay in their house and they will not be hurt. This attitude which led to the mass conversion of the Meccans to Islam because in the end they realized that the man who they rejected and banished from Mecca in the beginning willing to forgive them for their cruelty against the Muslims.

Copy the Code

rurouni_khairul,

You theory or story must does not carry weight coz these are stories written after the death of Mohammed. Why would a prophet who came to spread a religion of peace would bring in 50,000 soldiers? He entered Mecca with only one intention and that was to convert the pagan Arabs to Islam either with force or threat and he succeded in doing so because the Meccans did not want anymore bloodshed or sacrifice their people. And that was how Mohammed spread his new religion which was rejected by the people of Mecca in the beginning when Mohammed was without any strength to fighyt them. You need to do more research on his conquest than boast of his success.

Debmey

[quote]Originally posted by barney50 at 1-11-2006 12:56 PM
NONBELIEVERS AS REPLACEMENTS FOR BELIEVERS IN HELL

The next five hadis (6665-6669) are very interesting.  Allah does not exactly forgive the sins of the believers but visits them on the unbelievers.  He punishes the unbelievers for the sins of the believers.  In this way, both His wrath and His mercy are established.  揥hen it will be the Day of Resurrection Allah would deliver to every Muslim a Jew or a Christian and say: That is your rescue from Hell-Fire,

yes it is wrongly and narrowly analyzed with bad intent. Its an anti islam analysis, the analyst is an anti islam bigot.. what do you freakin expect???? WHAT DO YOU  EXPECT??? duh..

again do continue with your slander as i will no more waste my time to entertain to this baseless slander. hahaha..

THE STORY IS SLANDER. It was made up by a hindu bigot with the intention to downgrade the religion of others. the website which mr barney got all his stories about islam from is a HINDU WEBSITE (NOT AN ISLAMIC WEBSITE). thus theres no reason what so ever to waste any more time.

i rest my freaking case with a smile.  by Benign

I totally agreed with you.  :setuju::setuju::setuju:

There's no need to entertain futher such of these kinds.

barney50

Iman_6,

No need to entertain or you feel you have been cornered and that you find it difficult to get out of the situation? So, now we understand that truth hearts  you badly. But it's better to face the truth than hide in some lies that shrouds you with ignorance. Be brave and face the truth about your religion and it is geared to encounter hostility. Nothing personal but I speakth the truth.

loona

Originally posted by barney50 at 14-11-2006 05:34 PM
Iman_6,

No need to entertain or you feel you have been cornered and that you find it difficult to get out of the situation? So, now we understand that truth hearts  you badly. But it's better to ...

We can live with that! no problem...no need to remind us about the truth