HAMAS : Pesanan Buat Umat Islam di Malaysia

anginutara

Ada pihak yang tak setuju dgn cara HAMAS ada yang tak setuju dgn FATAH etc.  Persoalannya di sini apa kita patut lakukan selaku umat islam utk mempertahankan Palestin.  Mungkin nak berpeluk tubuh sahaja sehinggalah satu hari nanti masjid al Aqsa dihapuskan di bumi ini.  Pengebom berani mati dari HAMAS, kita tak suka, but do they have a choice?  unless kalau semua bala tentera dr negara islam berkumpul menjaga keamanan di Palestin, maka tak perlulah pengebom berani mati.

Originally posted by skywalker at 23-5-2006 10:29 AM



Anda pastikah yg bom sana sini tu org Islam ? Jangan main tuduh saja kerja2 bom berani mati ni kerja org Islam dan HAMAS. Perjuangan HAMAS hanya pejuangan mendapatkan kembali hak mereka yg di ...

betul ni. aku sokong. harap bean diesel dapat hayati orang Islam bersaudara. orang palestin saudara kita.

[ Last edited by  gennosukesama at 23-5-2006 04:39 PM ]

BeanDiesel

[quote]Originally posted by skywalker at 5/22/06 06:25 PM

Kita skrg ini di kelilingi oleh media2 慸ajjal

BeanDiesel

Originally posted by gennosukesama at 5/23/06 12:36 AM

betul ni. aku sokong. harap bean diesel dapat hayati

I think he's responding to this.

Anak Dr ada ramai lagi dak?  Dah ajar dia orang know-how pasal bom2 ni, kalau belum agak terlambat sikit, kawan kita dari malaysia half way kat Indon dah tamat riwayat.  Tak sempat nak share expertise....

and I was talking about bombing targeting civilians in Israel.

Originally posted by BeanDiesel at 23-5-2006 04:39 PM


first, suicide is never Islamic. 2nd, when the victim is civilians, it doesnt matter if it's done by the US, Israel or Palestinians, it's never right.

betul. tapi kalau kita tak sokong hamas bukan ke kita tak sokong palestin?

Originally posted by BeanDiesel at 23-5-2006 04:40 PM


I think he's responding to this.



and I was talking about bombing targeting civilians in Israel.

saya tahu. tapi respond dia tu kat kemungkinan besa bukan islam, tapi Beandiesel ni orang Islam yang bijak pandai, saya harap lebih menyokong saudara sesama Islam

BeanDiesel

Originally posted by anginutara at 5/22/06 07:26 PM
Pengebom berani mati dari HAMAS, kita tak suka, but do they have a choice?

Yup. Their choice is between civilians and soldiers.

I've heard of wars during Rasulullah's period where Islamic soldiers were outnumbered, but I don't remember them targetting civilians because they know they can't defeat opposing soldiers.

Originally posted by BeanDiesel at 23-5-2006 04:43 PM


Yup. Their choice is between civilians and soldiers.

I've heard of wars during Rasulullah's period where Islamic soldiers were outnumbered, but I don't remember them targetting civilians bec ...

kita sedang senang ni boleh la cakap camtu. saya pun tak sokong pengebom berani mati, tapi mmg diaorang tade pilihan. no choice. askar? kalau depa tak canggih lama dah askar depa kena serang, bukannya orang awam. cuba tgk dulu kenapa? bukan ke basic tu.

BeanDiesel

Originally posted by gennosukesama at 5/23/06 12:42 AM

saya tahu. tapi respond dia tu kat kemungkinan besa bukan islam, tapi Beandiesel ni orang Islam yang bijak pandai, saya harap lebih menyokong saudara sesama Islam

Aku support if it's done the right way. Cam mase Afghan lawan Russia tu, aku support dorang lawan soldiers (though from the videos I saw mase kat mesia dulu some soldiers pijak pijak kepala mayat musuh and some even shoot tentera lawan yang menyerah which I think are not very Islamic), because basically they were fighting soldiers.

So bagi aku, a deed is righteous if only if the intention and the way it's carried out are righteous. Aku tanak just amik side orang Islam semata mata sebab dorang Islam. Islam is perfect, but the followers may not necessarily be as good.

Originally posted by BeanDiesel at 23-5-2006 04:48 PM


Aku support if it's done the right way. Cam mase Afghan lawan Russia tu, aku support dorang lawan soldiers (though from the videos I saw mase kat mesia dulu some soldiers pijak pijak kepala may ...

yang pentingnya, adakah beandiesel sokong palestin atau tidak? itu yang saya nak pastikan. tq

BeanDiesel

Originally posted by gennosukesama at 5/23/06 12:40 AM

betul. tapi kalau kita tak sokong hamas bukan ke kita tak sokong palestin?

Well, we can still support their right for the land, but not necessarily all their methods. That's why between the two aku lebih favor Fatah.

Matlamat dengan cara bagi aku dua entity berbeza. Bagi aku kite boleh pilih mane nak sokong, atau sokong kedua duanya.

Contohnya macam Proton. Aku support kalau kerajaan nak bantu naikkan industry tu, tapi aku tak support caranya mengakibatkan rakyat sendiri terbeban, that safety becomes luxury. Aku support kalau kerajaan nak menjaga keamanan, tapi aku tak support kalau ia dijalankan sehingga rakyat tak dapat kebebasan bersuara secukupnya dalam membangkang kerajaan.

BeanDiesel

Originally posted by gennosukesama at 5/23/06 12:51 AM

yang pentingnya, adakah beandiesel sokong palestin atau tidak? itu yang saya nak pastikan. tq

To me they have the right to the land. They should have a good portion that they can self-rule. Yes, I'm not saying that all the jews patut dihalau. It's just inhumane. A lot of them were born there, they have no other citizenship. Walaupon dorang (palestinians) ditindas dulu, aku rasa they will be a lot more respected kalo dorang show compassion bile dorang berkuasa.

About the ruler, I really think they have to be trustworthy ones. Kalo tak memang susah nak dapat bantuan kemanusiaan. A Nobel prize winner A Sen says world hunger is not primiarily caused by lack of food, but the distribution problem and governmental policies. So government ni kalo corrupted memang susah nak ditolong rakyatnya, that sometimes the aid is intercepted la, misused la. So if the government is more trustworthy, I think a lot of countries and NGOs may be more willing to send help.

Originally posted by BeanDiesel at 23-5-2006 04:56 PM


Well, we can still support their right for the land, but not necessarily all their methods. That's why between the two aku lebih favor Fatah.

Matlamat dengan cara bagi aku dua entity berbez ...

tetapi, bukan ke orang2 palestin menyokong hamas? maknanya kalau tak sokong hamas kita tak sokong palestin. bukan ke kita Islam bersaudara. bukankah sepatutnya tanah mereka seperti tanah kita, perjuangan mereka perjuangan kita, bukankah kita patut berdoa utk mereka (sebab ini je yang mampu).
kita di malaysia aman, tak pernah merasa apa yang orang2 palestin rasa. jauh seperti langit dan bumi. jadi saya tak nakbuat apa2 kesimpulan, saya hanya berharap Umat Islam diberi kejayaan.

back_hand

Originally posted by M5 at 21-5-2006 12:22 AM


Ucapan  La Ilaha Ila Allah bermaksud kamu percaya kepada Tuhan yg Satu, dan Yahudi pun percaya kpd konsep yg sama.    Jangan la pulak kamu kata Tuhan anda tidak sama dengan Tuhan Yahudi.  Tuhan mana ada bangsa, wahai Dr Khalil....

apa yg ko faham lagi dgn maksud percaya kepada Tuhan yg Satu.Apa yg SATU? tolong ajarkan kan sket apa yg ko paham dgn kalimah La ila ha ila Allah.
sama tak konsep kepercayaan ketuhanan ANDA  ngan tuhan saya?heheh

-Semoga boleh membantu..

Originally posted by skywalker at 23-5-2006 10:20 AM


Memang tiada beza kepercayaan kita dgn yahudi. Kita percaya pd Allah, yahudi dan kristian juga percaya pd Allah, bahkan lebih dekat lg iblis pun percaya pd Allah dgn yakin.

Bangsa arab q ...

aku setuju apa skywalker tulis.
cuma aku nak tambah sket.semua agama yg berteraskan dari langit pecaya tuhan itu satu.dan asasnya tuhan yang satu itu ialah ALLAH.cuma..tuhan in Christianity boleh nampak.tuhan depa bleh dan telah dilihat.kehkeh.as long as jesus is believed to be god, he has been seen.sib baik tuhan dlm Islam tak pernah dilihat.Kalau tak..dah lama kena backhand or kena salib macam tuhan kristian.orait.

-Paul from Turki-

dess402

tapi aku dok teringat ketika hamas once menang pilihanraya dulu ..

depa dengan megah menolak segala perjanjian damai yang telah dibuat

termasuk sekali usaha2 masyarakat antarabangsa dalam melihat palastein

bebas dari dijajah dan yahudi pun sudah mula berundor dari tanah gaza .  

sebenarnya rundingan ini ada perkembangan tapi sayang ia dicemari dengan tindak tanduk

hamas yang jelas lebih sukakan peperangan .   jadi biarlah kini buku bertemu ruas .

tapi yang aku galat ..  nasib raklyat2 palastein yang tidak berdosa sekali lagi diperjudikan .

inilah dia kalo tersalah pilih pemimpin ..  Islam tah mana ..  yang aku nampak ego tak kenal dosa .

-  patut mereka ini disula .

sekian ..  wssalam .

[ Last edited by  dess402 at 23-5-2006 06:51 PM ]

BeanDiesel

Originally posted by gennosukesama at 5/23/06 01:08 AM

tetapi, bukan ke orang2 palestin menyokong hamas? maknanya kalau tak sokong hamas kita tak sokong palestin.

bagi aku their political preference and their right are two different things. I don't support their majority choice (assuming that the election is fair and square), but I do support their right of self-governance.

Just like pilihan majority rakyat Malaysia of the BN govenment (assuming that our election system is fair and square too). I support our people's right. I love our country. But I don't have to love the government. I don't have to agree with the people's choice (but I still support that the choice of the majority should govern, which is what democracy is all about).

Bagi aku orang Islam patut nampak dan bezakan perkara-perkara yang berlainan. Bagi aku, we should not just support some movement or method just because they're carried out by Muslims. If they don't carry out the duty the way Islam expects, I don't think we should support those who represents the religion inaccurately.

True, they love the religion, and do want to preserve the holy sites. I don't deny that. But I just disagree with their method.

bukan ke kita Islam bersaudara.  

Yes, tapi Islam tak suruh kite backing saudara kite (walaupon saudara sedarah) kalau saudara tu buat salah kan? I don't think kite belot  kalau tak support saudara kite dalam ape jua yang dia lakukan. The Way that Islam teaches should be our main priority for the support if they want our supports as brothers.

BeanDiesel

just to add to my point regarding brotherhood. Like us, even though we're brothers in Islam, I do not have to agree with your ideas, and you dont have to agree with mine to prove that we value our brotherhood. But I think because we value our brotherhood is why we want each other to believe and do the right thing.

The same goes to us and the palestinians, I want them to do things the right way.

Nesta13

ada ke dlm surat/artikel tu cakap 1USD tu kana digunakan utk bom tempat awam..? :hmm:

BeanDiesel

Originally posted by Nesta13 at 5/23/06 03:49 AM
ada ke dlm surat/artikel tu cakap 1USD tu kana digunakan utk bom tempat awam..? :hmm:

No. But the same goes to any donation. We'll never really know what they're going to do with it. But it's natural to aviod handing donations to those that doesn't seem trustworthy. And Hamas has the history of killing civilians, and hasn't seem to regret it.

Nesta13

And for that reason,i dont mind donating...