Muslims & kitab lain tiada bukti ...
The quran or even theother holy books did not mention or knowlege howdinosaurwas destroyed
Syaitan pada mula nya ada lah malaikat ....ada satu malaikat nama Lucifer....dia di beri kuasa untuk jadi ketua utk semua malaikat lain...lucifer juga'handsome' cerdik pandai dan lain...sebab DIA yg membuat lucifer begitu...dari masa kemasa...ia menjadi tamak dan mula tanam sifat negatif diri dan hasut semua malaikat ....bukan semua malaikat terperdaya dengan hasutan dia....maka DIAcampakkan lucifer dan semua yg sekutu dgn lucifer di bumi....ketika itulucifer dansemua masih belum di tukar wajah lagi....DIA memberi tugas pada lucifer dan sekutunya menjaga bumi ketika itu hanya dinosaur yg menduduki di bumi.....semakin hari, dia mula merasa tamak.....ingin mengambil kuasa di syurga tempat duduk DIA dan ingin menjadi DIA....maka, dia hasut semua malaikat di bumi utk menyerang syurga termasuk DIA....DIA tidak perlu berperang kerana mempunyai ramai malaikat2...berlakuperang antara kejahatan dan kebaikan ( "evil and good") di syurga ....lucifier dan sekutu kalah dan di campak semula ke bumi ...ketika di campak...ia nya macam batu2 besar di campakkebumi sehingga berlaku kerosakan di bumi dan kemusnahan yg dahsyatsehingga pupus dinosaur.....maka tukar lah muka lucifer yg paling lawa pada bentuk yg hodoh ...
jadi, tidak sebut yg lucifer ini harus sujud pada adam dlm Bible....kerana sujud cuma pada DIA bukan pada manusia....
Last edited by Truth.8 on 28-11-2013 03:58 PM
When Lucifer sinned, he wasn't punished by God. We know that Lucifer wasn't banned from Heaven because Satan appears before God in Job 1:6-7. Satan will be judged, convicted and punished at The Great White Throne Of Judgment with the rest of the wicked (Revelation 20:11-15). Satan will be cast into the Lake of Fire (Gehenna - Hell) forever to burn and be tormented night and day without rest. 2nd Peter 2:4 also tells us that the angels bound in Hell are RESERVED unto judgment. So neither the Devil nor the demons have been punished yet for their wickedness.
Ezekiel 28:13-19 teaches that Lucifer was stripped of his heavenly position, authority and glory when he rebelled against God in seeking equality. Earth became Satan's new home. It is commonly believed (and I disagree) that Satan in his anger and rage destroyed the earth. In fact (and you're about to be amazed), God destroyed the earth in His own anger. Yes, that's right, GOD DESTROYED THE EARTH IN GENESIS 1:1...
Jeremiah 4:23-28, “I beheld theearth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and allthe hills moved lightly. I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down atthe presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger. For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end. For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent,neither will I turn back from it.”
Could the Bible be any clearer that God in His anger made the earth without form and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep? The cities were inhabited by angels. Man had not been created yet. This is when dinosaurs roamed the earth. Argue as one may, these Scriptures plainly evidence why the earth was without form and void in Genesis 1:1. In fact, Jeremiah 4:23 even repeats the exact phrase word-for-word
Last edited by Truth.8 on 11-11-2013 03:14 PM
Ha ha , lagi sekali 'truth.8' didapati cuba menipu ttg 'lucifer' adalah iblees. 'Lucifer' hanya terdapat dlm bible KJV (atau Gay-J-V). 'Lucifer' adalah perkataan latin bukan hebrew atau koine greek (bahasa asal OT dan NT). Bible KJV diterjemah dari vulgate. Vulgate adalah translasi dari koine greek ke latin oleh Jerome (~ CE400). 'Lucifer' adalah seorang bishop dari Caliari , Sardinia. Nama penuh 'Lucifer Calaritanus'. Si mamat Jerome ni ada problem sikit dgn Bishop Lucifer sampai dia labelkan Bishop Lucifer sebagai iblees. Ini semua polimik dalaman gereja.
Lucifer of Cagliari was the Bishop of Cagliari in Sardinia. He was chosen to represent Pope Liberius at the Council of Milan (355) which was convened to answer the question of Athanasius. As a fierce adversary to Arianism he was one of few who didn’t bend to the will of Emperor Constantius II. Exiled by the emperor ....
There were some in the West who adopted his rigorist and closed minded views and refused to associate with those who had been suspected of Arian leanings. These “Luciferians” would later be attacked by Jerome in the Dialogue Against the Luciferians and disappeared early in the fifth century.
Malaikat dijadikan tuhan sebagai pesuruh dan mereka hanya turut perintah tuhan. Logik ke yg sorang malaikat ini memberontak dan lawan tuhan dan langsung jadi satu peperangan dlm syurga? Ini menunjukkan yg tuhan Kristian amat lemah. Tuhan Kristian tak mampu mengawal malaikat ciptaannya sendiri. Tuhan Kristian mengharapkan malaikat lain yg setia utk lawan si iblees ni. Tak logik langsung.
Truth.8 posted on 11-11-2013 03:10 PM static/image/common/back.gif
When Lucifer sinned, he wasn't punished by God. We know that Lucifer wasn't banned from Heav ...
Aiyoyo tambi , mau tipu ka? There is no evidence of dinosaurs in the bible. You are just arguing from your interpolation. I reproduce jer4:23-28 from your post #2
Jeremiah 4:23-28, “I beheld theearth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and allthe hills moved lightly. I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down atthe presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger. For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end. For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent,neither will I turn back from it.”Can you pinpoint where in the verses that state of dinosaurs? The verses state
- no existence of man
- birds in heaven sudah cabut lari
Out of the blue you claim 'this is when dinosaurs roamed the earth'. Ha ha , you are just arguing from your speculation. Apa la lu tambi ...
Menurut ajaran Kristian, malaikat mempunya nafsu dan berkuasa untuk melawan perintah Tuhan? sam1528 posted on 11-11-2013 04:54 PM static/image/common/back.gif
Ha ha , lagi sekali 'truth.8' didapati cuba menipu ttg 'lucifer' adalah iblees. 'Lucifer' hanya terd ...
The Word "Lucifer" in Isaiah 14:12 The parallels between the astronomical picture and what happened in the spirit realm are striking and reinforce the points Isaiah makes here in describing this tragic angelic rebellion.
In Isaiah 14:12
, the powerful being who led a rebellion against God is referred to by a word often translated as "Lucifer." The original Hebrew designation here—used only this one time in the Bible—is Heylel.Its precise meaning is debated. Some think it means "Praise of God," seeing a relation with the Hebrew Halal("praise"), the elat the end perhaps being a suffix meaning "God" (as in the angelic names Michael and Gabriel).
Others contend that Heylelmeans "brightness" or "shining one"—particularly given its apparent astronomical association. Paired here with the phrase "son of the morning," many believe the reference is to the planet Venus as the bright morning star shining in the east before sunrise. Indeed, this was evidently the understanding of the term shortly before Christ's time. The ancient Greek Septuagint translation of the Old Testament rendered the word as Eosphoros("dawn bearer"), the Greek term for Venus as the morning star (also known in Greek as Phosphoros,meaning "light bearer").
This meaning was incorporated into the fifth-century Latin Vulgate translation with the word Lucifer("light bearer" or "light bringer"), the name Roman astronomers used for the same morning star. Yet we should further consider that the angels of God were referred to figuratively in Scripture as "morning stars" (Job 38:7
; see also Revelation 1:20
).
A little knowledge of astronomy helps us better understand the picture here. Venus is the brightest object in the sky except for the sun and moon. We now understand it to be a planet. But to the ancients it was classed as a star—simply because their words for star meant a small, shining point of light in the sky. Notice again that the reference in verse 12 is "son of the morning." The planet Venus is still referred to as either the morning star or the evening star—because it is visible only just before sunrise or just after sunset.
Thus the picture presented is of a grand star, likened to Venus, that wants to be grander than the other stars: "I will exalt my throne above the stars of God" (verse 13). Before dawn, Venus rises from the eastern horizon. But before it is able to climb into the sky—to rise above the other stars and be the highest—the light of the rising sun causes Venus to disappear in the growing light of day.
The parallels between the astronomical picture and what happened in the spirit realm are striking and reinforce the points Isaiah makes here in describing this tragic angelic rebellion.
sam1528 posted on 11-11-2013 04:59 PM static/image/common/back.gif
Aiyoyo tambi , mau tipu ka? There is no evidence of dinosaurs in the bible. You are just arguing f ...
Aiyoyo tambi , mau tipu ka? There is no evidence of dinosaurs in the bible. You are just arguing from your interpolation. I reproduce jer4:23-28 from your post #2
What does the Bible say about dinosaurs? Where do dinosaurs fit in the biblical story? Does the fossil record really support evolution—or creation?
Answer:
Many have wondered about the origin of the dinosaurs and where they fit in the biblical story. The short answer is that much of the physical evidence on the earth points to these creatures having lived on earth before God created mankind.
The record of creation in Genesis 1 and 2, when the Bible introduces man and woman, is the re-creation of a previous world mysteriously destroyed. Because Scripture deals with the story of man and God's purpose for mankind, the Bible does not reveal many details about the earth before the creation of Adam and Eve—including dinosaurs. These chapters relate the origins of the world as we now know it, giving only a brief glimpse into the world that existed before Adam and Eve.
The original Hebrew wording of Genesis 1:1-2
indicates that a considerable time interval could have occurred between the events described in verse 1 and verse 2. See the sidebar "Earth's Age: Does the Bible Indicate a Time Interval Between the First and Second Verses of Genesis?" in our booklet Is the Bible True?
There is no conflict between biblical revelation and genuine science. We recognize that there is much scientific evidence that points to the earth probably being up to several billion years old. In other words, the physical evidence of the earth indicates it was quite old by the time God planted the Garden of Eden and created mankind in it. Therefore there is strong evidence that sometime between that initial creation and the creation of man approximately 6,000 years ago, the dinosaurs roamed the earth.
Truth.8 posted on 11-11-2013 06:24 PM static/image/common/back.gif
What does the Bible say about dinosaurs? ...
Where Do the Dinosaurs Fit?
http://www.ucg.org/sites/all/modules/print/icons/print_icon.gif
article by Mario Seiglie
Figuring out when the dinosaurs lived relative to man isn't really difficult.
"I don't believe in the Bible because dinosaurs lived a long time before man ever did."
Have you ever heard a statement like that? I certainly have—many times. In fact, this was one of the principal reasons Charles Darwin, the father of the theory of evolution, eventually rejected the Bible. Many have followed suit.
Most people believe you can't reconcile dinosaurs and the Bible—but they are wrong. This erroneous idea is based on the supposition that either you have to believe in the young-earth theory of a 6,000 year-old earth and dinosaurs living with Adam, or you can't believe in the creation week account of Genesis 1.
Yet many would be surprised to find that several centuries ago scientists did believe in dinosaurs, an ancientearth and in creation week.
In fact, many of the first geologists who established the basic geologic column were believers in both the Bible and an ancient earth.
British physicist Alan Hayward wrote about these premier geologists: "Among them were William Buckland and Adam Sedgwick. Buckland held the chair of geology at Oxford in the early nineteenth century, while Sedgwick was his counterpart at Cambridge . Both were leading churchmen, and both preached the plenary inspiration of Scripture and argued in favor of special creation …
"Buckland maintained close links with Sedgwick and the famous French geologist, Baron Cuvier … They did much to persuade the early nineteenth century church that the earth was extremely old and that such views could be harmonized with the teaching of Genesis" ( Creation and Evolution,1985, pp. 72-73).
Proper chronological sequence
It is interesting to note that two Bible experts in the 1970s combined their skills to publish The Reese Chronological Bible,which supports an ancient earth and a creation week that is actually a re-creation of a devastated earth.
Edward Reese was a professor of Bible, history and missions at Crown College in Powell, Tennessee, and spent 20 years putting biblical events in chronological order. Frank Klassen was an architect and engineer who spent 10 years writing The Chronology of the Bible.They both agreed that the account of Genesis had important biblical events occur betweenGenesis 1:1
and 1:2.
In fact, they felt the first verses of the Bible chronologically would be John 1:1-2
: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God."
This is the same way 20th-century Church of God leader Herbert W. Armstrong explained the real beginning of the biblical account. Before space, matter and energy were created, there existed the Word (who would later become Jesus Christ, see John 1:14
) and God (who later would be identified as God the Father).
Next in The Reese Chronological Biblecomes a scripture that speaks of God existing before the creation of the earth, Psalm 90:2
: "Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever You had formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God."
Then comes the traditional first scripture of Genesis 1:1
: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." This marks the creation of the universe as we know it, including the galaxies, stars and planets.
But the most fascinating part of this Bible is what follows—not Genesis 1:2
, but Isaiah 14:12-17
, where Lucifer's fall from heaven is recorded. Next comes the parallel account of Lucifer's fall in Ezekiel 28:13-18
.
Devastation and renewal
Only then comes Genesis 1:2
, "The earth was without form, and void ; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters" (emphasis added). In the New International Version (NIV) of the Bible, a footnote to the word "was" in this verse says, "Or possibly became."
Apparently, something happened to cause the earth to become, as the Hebrew denotes, "chaotic and in confusion." Since God is not the author of confusion or chaos (Isaiah 45:18
; 1 Corinthians 14:33
), it makes sense that the earth became that way due to Lucifer's rebellion and subsequent expulsion to the earth.
As Jesus Christ remarked, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven" (Luke 10:18
). Other scriptures reveal it was not only Satan, but also the fallen angels that were cast down with him. We read in 2 Peter 2:4
, "For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell tartaroo , a place of confinement, and in this case, the earth] and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment …"
Revelation 12:3-4
describes the dragon (Satan, verse 9) as having drawn a third of the stars of heaven to be cast down to the earth—these "stars" being symbolic of angels (compare 1:20).
What we don't know is how long it took Lucifer to rebel—and how long this was before the six-day renewal of the earth culminating in the creation of Adam and Eve, as described in the rest of Genesis 1. Satan's rebellion apparently happened after the earth had passed through the dinosaur age. Then, geologists agree, something dramatic occurred between the age of reptiles and the age of mammals.
As the famous paleontologist G.G. Simpson once remarked: "The most puzzling event in the history of life on the earth is the change from the Mesozoic Age of Reptiles, to the … Age of Mammals. It is as if the curtain were rung down suddenly on a stage where all the leading roles were taken by reptiles, especially dinosaurs, in great numbers and bewildering variety, and rose again immediately to reveal the same setting but an entirely new cast, a cast in which the dinosaurs do not appear at all, other reptiles are supernumeraries and the leading parts are all played by mammals of sorts barely hinted at in the previous acts" ( Life Before Man,1972, p. 42).
This apparently reflects the change from the pre-Adamic world to the world of man. Certainly there are smaller reptiles in our world, but they are insignificant in comparison to what existed in the previous age.
What has been presented here is not the only "ancient earth" explanation available, but it seems to make the most biblical sense. It is the only explanation I know of that accepts the literal 24-hour days of the creation (or to us, re- creation) week and, at the same time, makes room for an indefinite period beforethe creation of mankind that could include the dinosaurs and previous eras.
Recent geological and astronomical discoveries, such as cosmic expansion and signs of meteor impacts at the Cretaceous-Paleocene border of the geologic column, have only served to substantiate this view.
So, if anyone tells you he or she doesn't believe in the Bible because of a dilemma with the dinosaurs, let that person know there is more than the young-earth explanation available—one that fits well, as best we
gunblade712 posted on 11-11-2013 05:56 PM static/image/common/back.gif
Menurut ajaran Kristian, malaikat mempunya nafsu dan berkuasa untuk melawan perintah Tuhan?
Here God explains that Lucifer had a throne, representing a position of leadership and authority. He rose from somewhere below to try to overthrow God, but was "cut down to the ground."
Where was this place where Lucifer had his throne? Jesus Christ, whom we earlier saw was the "Word" alongside God at the creation, reveals more details. "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven," He said (Luke 10:18).
truth.8 : from here weunderstood it was like lightning maybe like fire which destroyed the dinosaurs....
Lucifer, who became Satan (meaning Adversary) at his rebellion, was cast down from heaven—to the earth!
The Bible explains that Satan retains his authority over this planet. Notice what Satan told Christ: "Then the devil, taking Him up on a high mountain, showed Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said to Him, 'All this authority I will give You, and their glory; for this has been delivered to me, and I give it to whomever I wish'" (Luke 4:5-6
).
Jesus resisted this temptation but did not dispute the assertion of Satan's present authority, even later calling him "the ruler of this world" (John 12:31
; 14:30; 16:11). He is elsewhere called "the god of this age" (2 Corinthians 4:4
).
It is no accident that in Genesis 3, shortly after God created Adam and Eve, Satan appeared on the scene as the serpent in the garden. The earth was—and still is—his domain. He had been cast down to the earth before man's creation took place. As noted in the account of the temptation of Christ, Satan had received authority over the earth. He then rebelled against God in a battle in which he was cast down to the earth, as Christ recounted.
Last edited by Truth.8 on 11-11-2013 06:34 PM
sam1528 posted on 11-11-2013 04:59 PM static/image/common/back.gif
Aiyoyo tambi , mau tipu ka? There is no evidence of dinosaurs in the bible. You are just arguing f ...
Can you pinpoint where in the verses that state of dinosaurs? The verses state
- no existence of man
- birds in heaven sudah cabut lari
Out of the blue you claim 'this is when dinosaurs roamed the earth'. Ha ha , you are just arguing from your speculation. Apa la lu tambi ...
thank you for showing us ur stupidlity .....it is common sense...no human during that time...did u read my topic...?
clearly it was dinosaurs living during that time untill God destroyed during dinosaurs times because of 'fallen angles'
even the Bible did not provide in detailsabout dinosaurs.....but we could understand surly dinosaurs was living during that time and how it come destroyed ....simple and easy understanding
Truth.8 posted on 11-11-2013 06:20 PM static/image/common/back.gif
The Word "Lucifer" in Isaiah 14:12 The parallels between the astronomical picture and what happened in the spirit realm are striking and reinforce the points Isaiah makes here in describing this tragic angelic rebellion.
In Isaiah 14:12
, the powerful being who led a rebellion against God is referred to by a word often translated as "Lucifer." The original Hebrew designation here—used only this one time in the Bible—is Heylel.Its precise meaning is debated. Some think it means "Praise of God," seeing a relation with the Hebrew Halal("praise"), the elat the end perhaps being a suffix meaning "God" (as in the angelic names Michael and Gabriel).
Others contend that Heylelmeans "brightness" or "shining one"—particularly given its apparent astronomical association. Paired here with the phrase "son of the morning," many believe the reference is to the planet Venus as the bright morning star shining in the east before sunrise. Indeed, this was evidently the understanding of the term shortly before Christ's time. The ancient Greek Septuagint translation of the Old Testament rendered the word as Eosphoros("dawn bearer"), the Greek term for Venus as the morning star (also known in Greek as Phosphoros,meaning "light bearer").
This meaning was incorporated into the fifth-century Latin Vulgate translation with the word Lucifer("light bearer" or "light bringer"), the name Roman astronomers used for the same morning star. Yet we should further consider that the angels of God were referred to figuratively in Scripture as "morning stars" (Job 38:7
; see also Revelation 1:20
).
A little knowledge of astronomy helps us better understand the picture here. Venus is the brightest object in the sky except for the sun and moon. We now understand it to be a planet. But to the ancients it was classed as a star—simply because their words for star meant a small, shining point of light in the sky. Notice again that the reference in verse 12 is "son of the morning." The planet Venus is still referred to as either the morning star or the evening star—because it is visible only just before sunrise or just after sunset.
Thus the picture presented is of a grand star, likened to Venus, that wants to be grander than the other stars: "I will exalt my throne above the stars of God" (verse 13). Before dawn, Venus rises from the eastern horizon. But before it is able to climb into the sky—to rise above the other stars and be the highest—the light of the rising sun causes Venus to disappear in the growing light of day.
The parallels between the astronomical picture and what happened in the spirit realm are striking and reinforce the points Isaiah makes here in describing this tragic angelic rebellion.
...
Can you explain why only KJV (Gay-J-V) bible use the word 'lucifer'?
The explanation you refer to just is just a parallelism to the spiritual world albeit it being a very weak
Lets see what isa14:12 state
(1) its state of 'heylel' (in hebrew) which mean 'praise of God'
or
(2) 'morning star' referring to venus.
Where does it clearly state that 'lucifer' means 'iblees'? Whatever you have been smoking , it must be really good. Ha ha
Last edited by sam1528 on 11-11-2013 10:05 PM
Truth.8 posted on 11-11-2013 06:38 PM static/image/common/back.gif
thank you for showing us ur stupidlity .....it is common sense...no human during that time...did u read my topic...?
clearly it was dinosaurs living during that time untill God destroyed during dinosaurs times because of 'fallen angles'
even the Bible did not provide in detailsabout dinosaurs.....but we could understand surly dinosaurs was living during that time and how it come destroyed ....simple and easy understanding
In other words , the bible did not explicitly state that dinosaurs roamed the earth. It is just your interpolation that dinosaurs were destroyed when the so called satan was thrown to earth.
This does not make sense. 2 issues here :
(1) Biblical Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden. If the Garden of Eden
(a) was in heaven : satan or 'iblees' cannot go back there to tempt them into eating the forbidden fruit as they have been thrown out of heaven
or
(b) was on earth : it would have been destroyed per your post #2
God destroyed the earth in His own anger. Yes, that's right, GOD DESTROYED THE EARTH IN GENESIS 1:1...
Either way your argument have no logic whatsoever.
The third point is that you can claim that satan (or 'lucifer' to you for whatever reason) sinned but not banned from heaven. This is even worse. In the bible , satan (or 'lucifer' to you for whatever reason) already led a rebellion against the biblical God causing a war in heaven. Somehow or rather he is still free to roam in heaven. Ha ha , logik ke?
Again if God destroyed the earth and a new one assumed , we would not find any fossils of dinosaurs ... would we? What is it now?
sam1528 posted on 11-11-2013 10:22 PM static/image/common/back.gif
In other words , the bible did not explicitly state that dinosaurs roamed the earth. It is just yo ...
In other words , the bible did not explicitly state that dinosaurs roamed the earth. It is just your interpolation that dinosaurs were destroyed when the so called satan was thrown to earth.
stop behaving like moron ok...
no humans was made during that times....common sense and historical facts that dinosaurs was made .....even is not record in Bible but the Bible did mentioned that the earth was destroyed because of lucifer...
The third point is that you can claim that satan (or 'lucifer' to you for whatever reason) sinned but not banned from heaven. This is even worse. In the bible , satan (or 'lucifer' to you for whatever reason) already led a rebellion against the biblical God causing a war in heaven. Somehow or rather he is still free to roam in heaven. Ha ha , logik ke?
Satan was not totally destroyed ...it was know as fallen angle...together with other rebellion angles as well and will contiuned to manipulate humans mind....
Again if God destroyed the earth and a new one assumed , we would not find any fossils of dinosaurs ... would we? What is it now?
what kind moron are u????thanks for showing us your stupdility.....anyway let me educate u....when God destroy Soddom and Gorrah...we still see evidences of proof with the findings....so does whenGod thrownfireinto the earth....it was destroyed all livings things during thattime and later God re contructed back with first human....
that is different yourgod and mine....
Truth.8 posted on 11-11-2013 11:11 PM static/image/common/back.gif
stop behaving like moron ok...
no humans was made during that times....common sense and historical facts that dinosaurs was made .....even is not record in Bible but the Bible did mentioned that the earth was destroyed because of lucifer...
You are not answering the question. Your post #2 stated that the earth was destroyed per gen1:1
Yes, that's right, GOD DESTROYED THE EARTH IN GENESIS 1:1...
Jeremiah 4:23-28, “I beheld theearth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light
Gen1:1 stated that the biblical God created the heavens. In the meantime you appealed to jer4:23-28 and claim that the earth at first was without form meaning the earth was reconstructed again. If so there won't be any fossils of dinosaurs. Appears that logic and you don't mix.
Satan was not totally destroyed ...it was know as fallen angle...together with other rebellion angles as well and will contiuned to manipulate humans mind....
We are not talking about satan manipulating humans. If Satan had been banished to Earth , how did Satan per the bible go up to the Garden of Eden to tempt biblical Adam and Eve assuming that the Garden of Eden was in heaven? If you claim that the Garden of Eden on earth , then it has to be the earth that was reconstructed after it has been destroyed per your appeal to gen1:1 / jer4:23-28 (as above). Therefore there won't be any fossils of dinosaurs. Either way your argument lack logic.
what kind moron are u????thanks for showing us your stupdility.....anyway let me educate u....when God destroy Soddom and Gorrah...we still see evidences of proof with the findings....so does whenGod thrownfireinto the earth....it was destroyed all livings things during thattime and later God re contructed back with first human....
that is different yourgod and mine....
Sodom and Gomorrah is a location or city that has been destroyed. It is not the whole of planet earth per your initial argument. These are 2 different issues that you are arguing about. Can you exercise a bit of logic?
Appears that the moron is you as you don't even exercise logic. For sure , Allah I worship is not the author of confusion.
Last edited by sam1528 on 12-11-2013 12:19 AM
sam1528 posted on 12-11-2013 12:13 AM static/image/common/back.gif
You are not answering the question. Your post #2 stated that the earth was destroyed per gen1:1
...
You are not answering the question. Your post #2 stated that the earth was destroyed per gen1:1
Thank for your stupdiltiy again. read whole chapter than one verses and please get good pastor to educate u
Genesis 1:2
: "The earth was without form, and void;and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters" (emphasis added). In the New International Version (NIV) of the Bible, a footnote to the word "was" in this verse says, "Or possibly became." Apparently, something happened to cause the earth to become, as the Hebrew denotes, "chaotic and in confusion." Since God is not the author of confusion or chaos (Isaiah 45:18
; 1 Corinthians 14:33
), it makes sense that the earth becamethat way due to Lucifer's rebellion and subsequent expulsion to the earth.
As Jesus Christ remarked, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven" (Luke 10:18
). Other scriptures reveal it was not only Satan, but also the fallen angels that were cast down with him. We read in 2 Peter 2:4
that "God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell tartaroo , a place of confinement, in this case the earth] and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment ..
Sodom and Gomorrah is a location or city that has been destroyed. It is not the whole of planet earth per your initial argument. These are 2 different issues that you are arguing about. Can you exercise a bit of logic?
it same method God have used. it destoryed all living things before adam
Appears that the moron is you as you don't even exercise logic. For sure , Allah I worship is not the author of confusion.
not sure about ur allah but I am sure the Bible is best source of book.
Apparently, something happened to cause the earth to become, as the Hebrew denotes, "chaotic and in confusion." Since God is not the author of confusion or chaos (Isaiah 45:18
; 1 Corinthians 14:33
), it makes sense that the earth becamethat way due to Lucifer's rebellion and subsequent expulsion to the earth.
Last edited by Truth.8 on 12-11-2013 10:35 AM
The quran or even theother holy books did not mention or knowlege howdinosaurwas destroyed
Syaitan pada mula nya ada lah malaikat ....ada satu malaikat nama Lucifer....dia di beri kuasa untuk jadi ketua utk semua malaikat lain...lucifer juga'handsome' cerdik pandai dan lain...sebab DIA yg membuat lucifer begitu...dari masa kemasa...ia menjadi tamak dan mula tanam sifat negatif diri dan hasut semua malaikat ....bukan semua malaikat terperdaya dengan hasutan dia....maka DIAcampakkan lucifer dan semua yg sekutu dgn lucifer di bumi....ketika itulucifer dansemua masih belum di tukar wajah lagi....DIA memberi tugas pada lucifer dan sekutunya menjaga bumi ketika itu hanya dinosaur yg mengeduduki di bumi.....semakin hari, dia mula merasa tamak.....ingin mengambil kuasa di syurga tempat duduk DIA dan ingin menjadi DIA....maka, dia hasut semua malaikat di bumi utk menyerang syurga termasuk DIA....DIA tidak perlu berperang kerana mempunyai ramai malaikat2...berlakuperang antara kejahatan dan kebaikan ( "evil and good") di syurga ....lucifier dan sekutu kalah dan di campak semula ke bumi ...ketika di campak...ia nya macam batu2 besar di campakkebumi sehingga berlaku kerosakan di bumi dan kemusnahan yg dahsyatsehingga pupus dinosaur.....maka tukar lah muka lucifer yg paling lawa pada bentuk yg hodoh ...
jadi, tidak sebut yg lucifer ini harus sujud pada adam dlm Bible....kerana sujud cuma pada DIA bukan pada manusia....
Walaupun dalam al-Quran tidak menceritakan tentang dinosaur tetapi dia ada menceritakan tentang keadaan makhluk sebelum manusia dihidupkan iaitu bangsa jin. Mereka sama seperti manusia yang bernafsu danberperasaan. Mereka mulanya taatdan menyembah kepada Allah. Tetapi lama kelamaan mereka kafir lalu saling berbunuhan di antara satu sama lain.
Satu jin bernama Azazil telah begitu alim dan banyak membuat ibadah lalu Allah naikkan dia semula ke syurga. Dia dilantik mengetuai para malaikat walaupun dia dari bangsa jin. Malangnya dia ingkar perintah Allah bila dia tidak mahu sujud kepada Nabi Adam disebabkan dia sombong dan merasa lebih mulia berbanding dari Nabi Adam yang dibuat dari tanah sedangkan dia dibuat dari api. Jika dia malaikat pastilah dia akan mengatakan dirinya dibuat dari cahaya kerana malaikat dibuat dari cahaya.
Di dalam al-Quran, Allah menyuruh manusia 'melihat' alam ini kerana melalui alam ini manusia akan melihat tanda-tanda' tentang kewujudan Allah yang Maha Berkuasa lagi Maha Bijaksana. Oleh itu manusia perlulah membuat penelitian dan membuat kajian kenapa dinasour pupus kalau mereka mahu tahu kebenaran yang terjadi.
Dalam al-Quran tidak disebutkan tentang dinasour bukan kerana ia tidak lengkap tetapi adalah kerana Allah mahu manusia mencari kebenaran itu sendiri. Jika mereka mengikut kata Bible yang mengatakan kononnya dinasour itu pupus akibat meteor atau Lucifer yang dilontarkan maka persoalan di sini maka mana bukti sains yang mengatakan sedemikian. Saintis tidak dapat lagi membuktikan apakah sebab yang menyebabkan dinasour pupus. Pelbagai andaian telah dibuat di antaranya dinasour kena penyakit, telur dinasour habis dimakan mamalia dan keadaan bumi yang tidak sesuai lagi untuk kehidupan dinasour. Tapi semua andaian itu pun tiada bukti.
Jika dinasour pupus sebab hentaman meteor atau Lucifer maka PERSOALAN di sini ialah 'MENGAPA DINASOUR AJE YANG PUPUS? MENGAPA ADA SPESIS FLORA YANG HIDUP DI MASA DINASOUR, MASIH HIDUP SEHINGGA KINI?
Tidakkah itu menunjukkan ada percanggahan dalam Bible dan sains sedangkan dalam al-Quran, Allah menunjukkan cara yang lebih berfaedah kepada manusia.
Para malaikat disuruh sujud itu bukan sujud menyembah Nabi Adam tetapi melakukan tunduk hormat kepada Nabi Adam. Sesungguhnya Allah memuliakan manusia melebihi malaikat adalah kerana manusia mempunyai akal. Tiadalah malaikat itu tunduk menyembah Nabi Adam tetapi mereka tunduk hormat kerana mengikut perintah Allah. Itu sesuai dengan kejadian mereka yang tiada perasaan dan nafsu bila mereka dijadikan oleh Allah hanya perlu melakukan taat kepada Allah. Last edited by ct_og on 12-11-2013 11:10 AM
tak silap wa penah baca..malaikat ada 13..
lucifer yg ke 13...
bia lucifer memberontak.tinggal lah 12...
Truth.8 posted on 12-11-2013 10:34 AM static/image/common/back.gif
Thank for your stupdiltiy again. read whole chapter than one verses and please get good pastor to educate u
Genesis 1:2
: "The earth was without form, and void;and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters" (emphasis added). In the New International Version (NIV) of the Bible, a footnote to the word "was" in this verse says, "Or possibly became." Apparently, something happened to cause the earth to become, as the Hebrew denotes, "chaotic and in confusion." Since God is not the author of confusion or chaos (Isaiah 45:18
; 1 Corinthians 14:33
), it makes sense that the earth becamethat way due to Lucifer's rebellion and subsequent expulsion to the earth.
As Jesus Christ remarked, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven" (Luke 10:18
). Other scriptures reveal it was not only Satan, but also the fallen angels that were cast down with him. We read in 2 Peter 2:4
that "God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell tartaroo , a place of confinement, in this case the earth] and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment ..
it same method God have used. it destoryed all living things before adam
I dunno , it appears that you have a problem reading your own bible. I repeat your post #2
Yes, that's right, GOD DESTROYED THE EARTH IN GENESIS 1:1...
Jeremiah 4:23-28, “I beheld theearth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light
Your post states of 2 things
(1) the biblical God destroyed the earth
(2) the earth was without form and void
Therefore it means that the earth was destroyed - without form and void. Definition of void
-empty
-vacumn
Therefore per your logic , the earth was reconstructed. If yes , there won't be any fossils of dinosaurs. Science have proven you and the bible to be wrong.
not sure about ur allah but I am sure the Bible is best source of book.
Apparently, something happened to cause the earth to become, as the Hebrew denotes, "chaotic and in confusion." Since God is not the author of confusion or chaos (Isaiah 45:18
; 1 Corinthians 14:33
), it makes sense that the earth becamethat way due to Lucifer's rebellion and subsequent expulsion to the earth.
What basis do you make such conclusion that the bible is the best of all books? We have shown that it has been corrupted and contain many errors.
Lucifer (only KJV or Gay-J-V enthusiasts appear to believe that 'lucifer' is satan) expulsion to earth resulted in the destruction of earth during the 'heavenly war' per your claim. If earth have been destroyed , what else remains? Your argument has no logic ... ha ha
Last edited by sam1528 on 12-11-2013 01:01 PM
Truth.8 posted on 11-11-2013 06:32 PM static/image/common/back.gif
Here God explains that Lucifer had a throne, representing a position of leadership and aut ...
thank you for the explanation, but you did not answer my question :
Menurut agama Kristian, adakah golongan Malaikat itu 'bernafsu' dan berkebolehan untuk mempunyai niat untuk membelot/mengkhianat Tuhan?
sam1528 posted on 12-11-2013 01:00 PM static/image/common/back.gif
I dunno , it appears that you have a problem reading your own bible. I repeat your post #2
...
I dunno , it appears that you have a problem reading your own bible. I repeat your post #2
I do not have problem but it is u...simple ....in the verses itshow no men...meaning, the earth was
Can the Bible explain the fossil record, evidence pointing to an ancient earth and divine creation at the same time? Yes, it can. We don't know the details of what happened before man's time. But Jesus Christ has assured us that when He returns "there is nothing hidden which will not be revealed, nor has anything been kept secret but that it should come to light" (Mark 4:22
).
Instead of wandering through the chaotic, confused maze of the theory of evolution, we should look to God's Word for assurance. It is there—directly from our Creator—that we find the truth of man's origin.
Perhaps the following quote from noted writer George Sim Johnston best sums up that truth: "The book of Genesis has held up well under the scrutiny of modern geology and archaeology. Twentieth-century physics, moreover, describes the beginning of the universe in virtually the same cosmological terms as Genesis. Space, time and matter came out of nothing in a single burst of light entirely hospitable to carbon-based life. A growing number of chemists and biologists agree that life had its origin from clay templates (see Genesis 2:7
) . . . I would say all this is a curious development for Darwinists" ( Reader's Digest,May 1991, p. 31).
But these things aren't a "curious development" to those who faithfully believe, as Christ did, in "every word that proceeds from the mouth of God" (Matthew 4:4
). They know that such truths have been recorded for mankind in the Bible for thousands of years.
It is to the Bible that we should turn for our moral standards, to discover our one true source of salvation and, perhaps most of all, for our belief in the invisible Creator God. Then we should not doubt the real origin of species mentioned in the creation epic, that rock-solid book of beginnings, Genesis.
Does it really matter what you believe?
We've seen the untold story of evolution: how evolution's supporting pillars—the fossil record, natural selection and random mutation—fail to support the theory at all. We've seen that evolution cannot explain many of the facts we see in the world around us. We've seen that the book of Genesis doesn't conflict with science and that, when we consider the evidence, it actually offers an explanation far more sound than Darwinian theory.
So where do you go from here? The choice is yours as to how you view the evidence.
You can choose to hold to the view that there is no Creator and that we are simply the result of blind chance, a series of lucky accidents. You can decide for yourself how you should live and what values and principles will determine how you treat others. You can believe that man created God rather than the other way around. As Paul pointed out almost 2,000 years ago, many people are quite content to find ways to reason around the evidence of a Creator (Romans 1:20-32
“Dinosaur” Names, Then and Now
Name and date first written in the Bible Scientific Name (best estimate) and date the name appeared
tanniyn (dragon) before 1400 BC dinosaur 1841 AD
behemoth before 1400 BC brachiosaurus 1903 AD
Leviathan before 1400 BC kronosaurus 1901 AD
How we got these new names is interesting. In 1822, Mary Ann Mantell became the first person to discover and correctly identify a strange bone as part of a large, unknown reptile. Her husband, Dr. Gideon Mantell, later named this creature an “Iguanodon.” From that time forward, these forgotten animals were given names chosen by the people who rediscovered them. Of course, the Bible, written between approximately 1450 BC and 95 AD, does not include any of these names.
Reading the Bible carefully, you will realize that no living creature matches the descriptions of behemoth and Leviathan. However, if you grab your kid’s dinosaur book, you will notice several possible matches for each one. Let’s examine those.
http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/images/ball4.jpg Behemoth has the following attributes according to Job 40:15-24
[*]It “eats grass like an ox.”
[*]It “moves his tail like a cedar.” (In Hebrew, this literally reads, “he lets hang his tail like a cedar.”)
[*]Its “bones are like beams of bronze,
His ribs like bars of iron.”
[*]“He is the first of the ways of God.”
[*]“He lies under the lotus trees,
In a covert of reeds and marsh.”
Some bibles and study bibles will translate the word “behemoth” as “elephant” or “hippopotamus.” Others will put a note at the edge or bottom of the page, stating that behemoth was probably an elephant or a hippopotamus. Although anelephant or hippopotamus can eat grass (or lie in a covert of reeds and marsh), neither an elephant or a hippopotamus has a “tail like a cedar” (that is, a tail like a large, tapered tree trunk). In your kid’s dinosaur book you will find lots of animals that have “tails like a cedar.”
We would expect behemoth to be a large land animal whose bones are like beams of bronze and so forth, so whatever a behemoth is, it is large. A key phrase is “He is the first of the ways of God.” This phrase in the original Hebrew implied that behemoth was the biggest animal created. Although an elephant or a hippopotamus are big, they are less than one-tenth the size of a Brachiosaurus, the largest (complete) dinosaur ever discovered. A Brachiosaurus could therefore easily be described as “the first of the ways of God.”
Comparing all this information to the description in your kid’s dinosaur book, you may come to the conclusion that “behemoth” is not a normal animal, it is a dinosaur—the brachiosaurus. We agree with that conclusion!
Note: Some paleontologists have found fragmentary leg bones, ribs, or vertebrae which they propose belong to “new” sauropods larger than Brachiosaurus. Examples of these include Amphicoelias, Argentinasaurus, Sauroposeidon, Seismosaurus, Supersaurus and Ultrasaurus. There currently is not enough evidence to really determine the size of any of these, and some paleontologists believe that they are merely large examples of known dinosaurs like Brachiosaurus or Diplodocus. In any case, only the “modern scientific name” of behemoth would change. The point would still remain that behemoth refers to a dinosaur, not a “modern animal” like an elephant or hippopotamus.http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/images/ball4.jpg Leviathan has the following attributes according to Job chapter 41, Psalm 104:25,26 and Isaiah 27:1. This is only a partial listing—just enough to make the point.
[*]“No one is so fierce that he would dare stir him up.”
[*]“Who can open the doors of his face, with his terrible teeth all around?”
[*]“His rows of scales are his pride, shut up tightly as with a seal; one is so near another that no air can come between them; they are joined one to another, they stick together and cannot be parted.”
[*]“His sneezings flash forth light, and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning. Out of his mouth go burning lights; sparks of fire shoot out. Smoke goes out of his nostrils, as from a boiling pot and burning rushes. His breath kindles coals, and a flame goes out of his mouth.”
[*]“Though the sword reaches him, it cannot avail; nor does spear, dart, or javelin. He regards iron as straw, and bronze as rotten wood. The arrow cannot make him flee; slingstones become like stubble to him. Darts are regarded as straw; he laughs at the threat of javelins.”
[*]“On earth there is nothing like him, which is made without fear.”
[*]Leviathan “played” in the “great and wide sea” (a paraphrase of Psalm 104 verses 25 and 26—get the exact sense by reading them yourself).
[*]Leviathan is a “reptile that is in the sea.” (Isaiah 27:1) Note: The word translated “reptile” here is the Hebrew word tanniyn. This shows that “Leviathan” was also a “tanniyn” (dragon).
Unlike behemoth, who is huge, Leviathan is ferocious and terrifying. Many references (we have not listed them all) refer to the sea, so Leviathan is probably a sea creature. Although some bibles refer to Leviathan as an alligator or crocodile (and both of these are fierce) neither of these is a sea creature. They like the water, but they spend much of their time on land. Further, the question “Who can open the doors of his face. . . .” implies that nobody can open Leviathan’s jaws. Although an alligator's jaws cannot normally be forced open, a punch to their sensitive snout or poke in eye might startle them enough to release their grip. Although this is a good description of an alligator characteristic, it does not fit perfectly with the description of Leviathan, which in the context of the Bible was supposed to describe an essentially impossible event, and we are not done yet.
The description of the scales is interesting. Several verses describe these great scales. Compared to Leviathan’s armor, iron is like straw and arrows ca not make it flee. Let’s face it, an arrow can do a lot of damage to a crocodile or alligator. This is not a description of either of them—or any living animal we are aware of.
And now for the key ingredient: fire. It is hard to read Job 41:18-21 without realizing the Bible is telling us that Leviathan breathes fire. That alone will eliminate almost every living animal. Yes, there is one animal like that in today’s world. It is called a bombardier beetle. This beetle is a native of Central America, and has a nozzle in its hind end that acts like a little flame thrower. It sprays a high-temperature jet of gas (fueled by hydroquinones and hydrogen peroxide with oxidative enzymes) for protection. Now, if a Central American beetle can do it, so could Leviathan. By the way, crocodiles and alligators are out of the picture on this one, don’t you agree?
Before we leave the topic of fire, there are two more notes you may find interesting:
[*]The history of every culture is filled with stories of fire-breathing dragons. If you think about it, in all the past ages wouldn’t someone have made up a story of a fire-breathing lion or something? Nobody did because the dragon stories are based on truth, and only “dragons” breathed fire. It is easy to imagine Leviathan as a member of the dragon (tanniyn) family. (Plus, Isaiah 27:1 strongly implies this connection.)
[*]Many fossil dinosaur skulls contain unexplained, empty passages. Scientists have not been able to guess the reason for these passages. Would it make sense that some dinosaurs used these passages as “gas tanks” for the combustible mixture used to “breathe fire?” We believe it does.
The end....
Last edited by Truth.8 on 12-11-2013 08:22 PM