Divinity of Quran ???
Divinity of Quran by Syed Kamran MirzaQuran is anything but a divine book! When I myself read Quran—my intention was to search something or anything that was impossible for human beings to think, know, formulate, or imagine in the 7th century period. But to my utter surprise, I could not find a single statement, or fact in the Quran which could not be said/think/formulate/imagine by human beings. This statement is true for all religious books, not just Quran.
Quran: (Q.4:82 ): “Do they not consider the Qur’an? Had it been from any other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much discrepancy.”
Discrepancy? There are plenty of discrepancies in Quran. One can find numerous discrepancies, inconsistencies, contradictions, scientific errors, full of redundancies, lack of any chronology etc throughout the entire Qur’an. Self proclamation of greatness is never valid, but when other people say good then it really becomes good. Just because, Quran itself claimed that it is free of any discrepancy, that does not mean it is free of any discrepancy. It is to be judged nonbiased by it’s contents only.
My several previous articles on Qur’an, Hadiths and some historical happenings such as: Adoption in Islam, Prophet’s marriage, Embryological development of human, Sword of Mercy etc. have very well postulated various facts which I consider mostly proven much reflections much of what was going on in the mind of the man who composed it. We have been talking about self-serving Quranic revelations, such as, sending Ayats: to prohibit adoption in Islam to justify marrying (scandalous) adapted son’s divorced wife, marrying six year old Ayesha, (revealing Sahi Hadiths to justify) ; Ayats to prohibit/control the movements of disciples in the prophet’s house; and insisting/luring the followers to fight/kill in order to get prophet’s intention fulfilled, Ayats to subdue Prophet’s own wive’s rebellion by giving threat of mass divorce etc. Do we need to search for the reflections in Quran? Human reflections are every where in the Quran.
These are pure human reflections on the so called divine orders. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) wanted to establish a new religion and he had to overcome any obstacles/resistance on his path and he needed strength to fight those obstacles to get the success. And so he brought revelations to lure/insist people to fight and kill for his cause. If he was an omnipotent human being, probably he would not have to ask people to kill.
Erroneous Historical Facts:Stating historical facts is not impossible for human beings. History is the thing of the past and mankind so far discovered/learned lots of amazing past of this planet. Mankind’s quest of knowing our past can reach millions of years and it does not take divinity to know the past. Of course, knowing future could take a divine help, because mankind hardly can predict the future (except weather forecast) very accurately. For example, take these case of Dhul-Qarnayn and Embryology:
Dhul-qarnayn: This is historical past happened not far from Arab and again this historical statement is seriously erroneous. This Dhul-Qarnayn history (Quran:18:83-98) is said to be about Alexander the Great who came from the north (Macedonia). Quran amazingly claims that Alexander the Great was a righteous man (Muslim), even though, history tells us that, Alexander was a licentious, belligerent, idolatrous and claimed to be the son of Amun, the God of Egypt. And Quran amazingly stated that, the Alexander was the one who reached the west point of flat earth where sun set down in a well of muddy water, and also he reached the point of east end of the earth where he saw sun was rising.
Quran mentioned (Quran: 19:28, 66:12, 3:35) Mary (Mother of Jesus) as the sister of Aaron and Moses and the daughter of Imran. This is a grave error of the history. Virgin Mary the mother of Jesus had no brother named Aaron and Mary born almost 1500 hundreds years after the Moses and Aaron was born.
Therefore, stating “historical past” is not impossible for mankind. Of course, sometimes people may record wrong history such as the case of Mary. People get them from various story tellers, archeological ruins, records of the past, historical installations etc. Most of the historical stories in the Quran are believed to be originated from Old testaments, book of Zoroastrian, and other local myths and heretical Arab’s stories. Most of all, knowing the past history was never impossible for human beings of any ages. But we can see, the above two samples of historical past in Qur’an were not true or accurate. If it was from divine source, one could expect it to be true and accurate. Modern human beings can discover/ know the history of millions of years old with much accuracy with out the help of divine power. Mankind discovered very accurately our fossilized pasts and discovered the existed past of the extinct Dinosaurs which ruled the earth 65 million years ago. Existence of the Dinosaur is not an imagination, it is a reality today. This is a great historical fact which Allah even did not remember to mention in any of the Holy books.
Embryology in Quran: There is no embryological science presented in the Quran, which was not know at the time of 6th or 7th century period. In fact, most of the embryological science described in Quran was known to this world well before the time of Quranic compilation. Quranic description very well fits the embryological descriptions of Hippocrates, Aristotle and Galenic (from 5th century B.C. to 4th century A.D.) period. It is irrelevant to ask how Muhammad could have known or found this knowledge. But it is important to note that this much of embryological knowledge was available/prevailing at that time of the world. Most importantly, embryological knowledge presented in the Quran,and ancient Greeks (Hippocrates, Aristotle) and Galenic period was scientifically incorrect compared to the modern scientific knowledge. Quite obviously, had there been this knowledge of embryology came from divine source, there could be no error fond in them today or even after millions of years.
In my article, “Ambiguity of Human Embryology-Science #2”, I have mentioned how embryological knowledge in Quran was borrowed from ancient Greek ideas. As for example, Quran stated, “ We created man from clotted blood” (Zammat rakta theke manush baniechi) was the same erroneous idea of Hippocrates who thought, human embryo develops by mixing menstrual blood with semen. Truth of the matter is, nothing can grow from clotted blood.
What could be then convincing revelation to consider Divinity?
Revelations which could be considered purely divine are: had there been statement/prediction/foretold in Quran—such as, existence of Dinosaurs, human beings will fly in the sky like a bird, mankind will land in the moon, diseases are caused by living organisms, human beings will conquer new lands to the other side of the ocean or at least earth is round and not flat and it is not the sun moves/travels for appointed times but it is the earth moves around the Sun etc etc.
THEN, NOBODY WOULD RAISE ANY DOUBT OR WOULD HAVE ASKED ANY QUESTION ABOUT THE DIVINENESS OF THE HOLY QURAN TO DAY.
by wkk5159
Quote by Syed Kamran Mirza
This statement is true for all religious books, not just Quran.
Please don't bullshit other religions just because you (Muslims) followed a false religion. It is not our fault you were so naive into thinking Islam was truth.
And FYI - You didn't read any other religious book other than the Bible and Al Quran. Fullstop. Quran is divine but its interpretation by some kitty-w/o-whiskies is absolutely choked with non-sense-nor-devout thus misguidedly (copy-pasted) bound to falsehood... Sephiroth posted on 21-5-2013 10:44 AM static/image/common/back.gif
by wkk5159
Cool down, i just quoted a writing by an ex-muslim. There's no need for you to over react here.
Why acting so defensive like muslims whom you criticised a lot and you now end up like one of them ???
What make you think that i haven't read any other scripture beside Bible and Quran ?
I did extensive research into Buddhist and Hindu scripture too.
Ha ha , this is so funny. A christian , 'wkk5159', referring to atheist sources trying to refute the Quran. Hmmm , what do these atheists think about the bible .... 'wink wink'.
Lets do a comparison :
(1) Discrepancies in the
Quran : None , if there are - provide them
Bible : 101 contradiction in the bible
(2) Marriage between Prophet Muhammad(saw) and Aishah(ra). Hmm , I thought we've already cleared this one up. Exe16:7-8 states that the marriage is ok and valid. However the marriage between biblical Isaac(40) / Rebekah(3) is not ok. Ha ha , recycling already refuted arguments.
(3)Dhul-qarnayn was Alexander the Great? Ha ha , if we trace the source , this so called claim comes from the orientalists who are actually Christians.
Nöldeke who established that Dhul-Qarnayn was none other than Alexander and the source of the Qur'anic narrations was the Syrian Christian Legend ascribed to Jacob of Serugh (d. 521 CE). Nöldeke dated the Christian Legend to 514-515 CE.
The big problem here is that evidence by Hunnius, Kmoskó and Czeglédy have proven that work 'Christian Legend' was actually composed after 628CE. Poor you , copy paste without understanding again.
(4) Flat earth
Quran : The earth is spherical in shape : Quran39:5 (sahih international)
....He wraps the night over the day and wraps the day over the night...
The arabic word here is 'yukawir' from the root word 'takwir' which has a meaning of wrapping a turban around the head in combination with the root word 'kurah' which means sphere ; ie. wrapping around a sphere implying that the earth is spherical in shape.
Bible : the earth is flat , isa40:22
He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,
and its people are like grasshoppers.
Circle is 2 dimensional .... ie. the earth is flat in the bible
(5) Setting Sun
Quran : the Quran describes the perception of Zulkarnain , Quran18:86 (sahih international)
Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it [as if] setting in a spring of dark mud, and he found near it a people. Allah said, "O Dhul-Qarnayn, either you punish or else adopt among them goodness."
It is the person's perception as he looks to the setting sun
Bible : the bible describes the sun sets over mountains on the other side of Jordan , deut11:30
As you know, these mountains are across the Jordan, westward, toward the setting sun, near the great trees of Moreh, in the territory of those Canaanites living in the Arabah in the vicinity of Gilgal.
This is a clumsy text.
(6) Maryam(ra) the sister of Haroon(as)? This again shows that you don't even know your bible and the its setting in the mid east and the nuance of the semitic languages , hebrew / aramaic / arabic. Its ok , this is free lesson for you. One of the nuance of the semitic language is to express the members of the lineage to be brothers / sisters / sons / daughters of each other. Such examples are in the bible :
luk18:38
He called out, “Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me!”
btw , this is wrong , biblical Jesus had no father. The lineage comes from the father side
gen13:8
So Abram said to Lot, “Let’s not have any quarreling between you and me, or between your herders and mine, for we are close relatives
Adam Clarke commentary of the verse :
For we be brethren - We are of the same family, worship the same God in the same way, have the same promises, and look for the same end.
Maryam(ra) and Haroon(as) comes from the same priestly family and of the same faith.
Ha ha , thank you again , this argument epitomise your ignorance of your own bible. Too bad .... so sad.
(7) Embryology in the Quran. An excerpt from the book 'The Developing Human - Clinically Oriented Embryology, 8th Edition' says it all :
"Growth of science was slow during the medieval period, and few high points of embryological investigation undertaken during this time are known to us. It is cited that the Quran (seventh century AD), the Holy Book of the Muslims, that human beings are produced from a mixture of secretions from the make and female. Several references are made to the creation of a human being from a nutfa (small drop). It also states that the resulting organism settles in the womb like a seed, 6 days after its beginning. Reference is also made to the leechlike appearance of the early embryo. Later the embryo is said to resemble a "chewed substance."'
Moore, Keith L. and Persaud, T.V.N. The Developing Human - Clinically Oriented Embryology, 8th Edition. pgs. 8-9. Saunders Elsevier, Philadelphia,2008. ISBN: 978-1-4160-3706-4. BTW , Prof Keith Moore is a committed Catholic.
(8) Dinosaurs in Quran? Ooi tambi , can you explain when did the word 'dinosaurs' came about? The Quran mention of 'creatures' or in arabic 'dabbah' after the creation of the earth has been settled. Quran31:10 (sahih international)
He created the heavens without pillars that you see and has cast into the earth firmly set mountains, lest it should shift with you, and dispersed therein from every creature ...
In the bible .... nothing , zilch , nada .... Can we now assume that the bible is not the word of God per your line of argument? Ha ha .... got you again ...
Last edited by sam1528 on 21-5-2013 01:33 PM
Seems like this lecherous toothless doggy ustazy just had his latest episode of psychotic hallucinating delusion that he again got the best of non-evil faith again....:lol:
This pseudo Bible scholar sure knows how to embarass himself and entertain us in this hot and humid weather.....i just handpick one of the absurdity of Quran to keep us entertained.
" He wraps the night over the day and wraps the day over the night.." means that the earth was round ?????
When we want to imply something is round or spherical, all we have to do is describe it as round, sphericalor at least CIRCLE. Do we have to use the abstract language like wrapping something to denote its meaning ??? Definitely NO ! Muslims sure don't interpret this quranic verse as earth is spherical in shape before the astronomical discovery of the shape of earth !(discovered by non-muslim of course !)
Again this dumb lecherous toothless ustazy's deceptive lie doesn't work on truth knowing academic like me.....:lol:
By the way, what did the Bible say about the shape of earth ??
Bible revealed that the earth is round. Job 26:10, Prov 8:27, Isaiah 40:22, Amos 9:6. Today, we chuckle at the people of the fifteenth century who feared sailing because they thought they would fall over the edge of the flat earth.Yet the Bible revealed the truth in 1000 B.C. 2500 years before man discovered it for himself ! In various verses, the Bible says the earth is round and hangs in space. It took a long time for science to catch up and reach the same conclusions. Copernicus made the discovery in 1475. But the Bible always knew. Here are two related Bible verses that were written more than 2500 years ago, and more than 1000 years before Copernicus:
"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth..." (Isaiah 40:22,NIV).(By the way, the Hebrew language at that time did not have a word for "sphere," only for "circle.")
"He spreads out the northern over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing" (Job 26:7, NIV).
Last edited by wkk5159 on 21-5-2013 03:38 PM
wkk5159 posted on 21-5-2013 03:35 PM static/image/common/back.gif
Seems like this lecherous toothless doggy ustazy just had his latest episode of psychotic hallucinating delusion that he again got the best of non-evil faith again....http://mforum.cari.com.my/static/image/smiley/default/lol.gif
This pseudo Bible scholar sure knows how to embarass himself and entertain us in this hot and humid weather.....i just handpick one of the absurdity of Quran to keep us entertained.
" He wraps the night over the day and wraps the day over the night.." means that the earth was round ?????
When we want to imply something is round or spherical, all we have to do is describe it as round, sphericalor at least CIRCLE. Do we have to use the abstract language like wrapping something to denote its meaning ??? Definitely NO ! Muslims sure don't interpret this quranic verse as earth is spherical in shape before the astronomical discovery of the shape of earth !(discovered by non-muslim of course !)
Again this dumb lecherous toothless ustazy's deceptive lie doesn't work on truth knowing academic like me.....http://mforum.cari.com.my/static/image/smiley/default/lol.gif
By the way, what did the Bible say about the shape of earth ??
Bible revealed that the earth is round. Job 26:10, Prov 8:27, Isaiah 40:22, Amos 9:6. Today, we chuckle at the people of the fifteenth century who feared sailing because they thought they would fall over the edge of the flat earth.Yet the Bible revealed the truth in 1000 B.C. 2500 years before man discovered it for himself ! In various verses, the Bible says the earth is round and hangs in space. It took a long time for science to catch up and reach the same conclusions. Copernicus made the discovery in 1475. But the Bible always knew. Here are two related Bible verses that were written more than 2500 years ago, and more than 1000 years before Copernicus:
"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth..." (Isaiah 40:22,NIV).(By the way, the Hebrew language at that time did not have a word for "sphere," only for "circle.")
"He spreads out the northern over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing" (Job 26:7, NIV).
Ha ha , when the day 'wraps' over the night and vise versa means that we are on an object which is spherical lah tambi. If we are on a flat earth as claim by you , the night and day will not 'wrap' each other. In this case , 'wrap'is an intransitive verb which has the following definition :
to wind, coil, or twine so as to encircle or cover something
If being used as a transitive verb :
to conceal or obscure as if by enveloping
If the earth is flat , there won't be any progression of 'encircle or cover' or by 'enveloping'. It will be straightway day or night without morning nor afternoon nor evening. Ha ha , it appears that you are of less than average intelligence
Ha ha , the earth is not flat according to the bible? I will reproduce the quoted verse of isa40:22
He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,
and its people are like grasshoppers.
Like I stated , a circle is 2 dimensional. This mean flat earth. It doesn't matter if there is no hebrew word for sphere. The explanation for spherical earth can be made analogously.
job26:7
He spreads out the northern skies over empty space;
he suspends the earth over nothing.
This verse does not even mention about spherical earth. Ha ha .... trying to pull a fast one?
It is clear isn't it? The Quran mentions of the earth being spherical but the bible 'die die' claim that the earth is flat. Ha ha , lets seewhat other absurd arguments that you are going to bring up. You do have the capability for such. Pssst , a sphere is 3 dimensional but a circle is 2 dimensional ..... if you don't know. Appears that you don't even know this ... ha ha
Last edited by sam1528 on 21-5-2013 06:52 PM
Hehehe.....Truthful people present simple and logic facts but the serpentine ustazy (which can frequently utter tambi mind you....:lol:) try his best to twist and wriggle his way out of trouble. Here is the typical serpentine slithering lies;
"Ha ha , when the day 'wraps' over the night and vise versa means that we are on an object which is spherical lah tambi. If we are on a flat earth as claim by you , the night and day will not 'wrap' each other. In this case , 'wrap'is an intransitive verb which has the following definition :
"to wind, coil, or twine so as to encircle or cover something"
If being used as a transitive verb :
"to conceal or obscure as if by enveloping "
.....................;P
I just repeat my golden previous post in case some dumb evil faith followers don't understand. I hightlight the main point.
When we want to imply something is round or spherical, all we have to do is describe it as round, sphericalor at least CIRCLE. Do we have to use the abstract language like wrapping something to denote its meaning ??? Definitely NO ! Muslims sure don't interpret this quranic verse as earth is spherical in shape before the astronomical discovery of the shape of earth ! (discovered by Corpenicus, a Christian of course !)
Again this dumb lecherous toothless ustazy's deceptive lie doesn't work on truth knowing academic like me.....http://mforum2.cari.com.my/static/image/smiley/default/lol.gif
By the way, what did the Bible say about the shape of earth ??
Bible revealed that the earth is round. Job 26:10, Prov 8:27, Isaiah 40:22, Amos 9:6. Today, we chuckle at the people of the fifteenth century who feared sailing because they thought they would fall over the edge of the flat earth.Yet the Bible revealed the truth in 1000 B.C. 2500 years before man discovered it for himself ! In various verses, the Bible says the earth is round and hangs in space. It took a long time for science to catch up and reach the same conclusions. Copernicus made the discovery in 1475. But the Bible always knew. Here are two related Bible verses that were written more than 2500 years ago, and more than 1000 years before Copernicus:
"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth..." (Isaiah 40:22,NIV).(By the way, the Hebrew language at that time did not have a word for "sphere," only for "circle.").......Circle means round and 1500 years ago nobody thought that the earth is round, they all thought that the earth is horizontally flat ! One idiot ustazy mentioned here circle is just 2 dimentional lah and not 3D lah and hence the Bible description of earth is flat not round....:lol:. I guess this poor old lecherous ustazy sure never attended geography class before and let alone know how to read a map ! Isn't illusrtration of earth on a paper map is only 2D ??? What to do ?Stupidity can't be taught.....:lol:
"He spreads out the northern over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing" (Job 26:7, NIV)...................Hallelujah ! This verse clearly proves that God in the Bible is the creator of universe, 1500 years ago when most people thought that earth was the centre of the universe and basically knew nothing about planet earth hangs in space BUT this Bible verse clearly said that EARTH is suspending in the space !
Bible : 1 Quran : 0
I think later this serpentine lecherous ustazy will start to shamelessly claim that muslim invented the 3D smart TV 1500 years ago......:lol: wkk5159 posted on 22-5-2013 09:12 AM static/image/common/back.gif
Hehehe.....Truthful people present simple and logic facts but the serpentine ustazy (which can frequuently utter tambi mind you....http://mforum.cari.com.my/static/image/smiley/default/lol.gif) try his best to twist and wriggle his way out of trouble. Here is the typical serpentine slithering lies;
"Ha ha , when the day 'wraps' over the night and vise versa means that we are on an object which is spherical lah tambi. If we are on a flat earth as claim by you , the night and day will not 'wrap' each other. In this case , 'wrap'is an intransitive verb which has the following definition :
"to wind, coil, or twine so as to encircle or cover something"
If being used as a transitive verb :
"to conceal or obscure as if by enveloping "
.....................http://mforum.cari.com.my/static/image/smiley/default/titter.gif
Ha ha , the one who is twisting and wriggling around is just you. My argument has the backing of the english dictionary whereas you are just arguing from your fantasy. I repeat again the definition of 'wrap' being a
- transitive verb
to conceal or obscure as if by enveloping
- intransitive verb
to wind, coil, or twine so as to encircle or cover something
When you coil something over an object , there is a progressive covering of that object. If the concept is applied to the progression of the day and night , such can only be acheived if the earth is spherical. This is basic science yet you are caught being ignorant.
Ha ha , you cannot refute me .... can you. BTW , appears that you have given up defending the absurdity of the bible that 'die die' claim that the earth is flat per isa40:22 - the earth is a circle , 2 dimensional which implies a flat earth. Ha ha , repeating your post over and over again do not in any way make it to be true.
Ha ha , smart TV invented 1400 yrs ago? There is something very wrong with you.
Pssst , do you now know the difference between 2 dimensional and 3 dimensional geometry? Ha ha
This is very funny :
"He spreads out the northern over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing" (Job 26:7, NIV)...................Hallelujah ! This verse clearly proves that God in the Bible is the creator of universe, 1500 years ago when most people thought that earth was the centre of the universe and basically knew nothing about planet earth hangs in space BUT this Bible verse clearly said that EARTH is suspending in the space !
Why are you trying to pull a fast one? This verse does not in any way refute the belief of geocentric universe. It just states that the earth is suspended in space. Why do you insist in lying? This verse has got nothing to do in refuting the so called 'flat earth' claim of the bible. You are really a good student of Paul , you know romans3:7 .... ha ha
Last edited by sam1528 on 22-5-2013 11:09 AM
Islamic version of earth;
Quran39:5 (sahih international)
....He wraps the night over the day and wraps the day over the night...............:lol:
Christian version of earth;
"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth..." (Isaiah 40:22,NIV).(By the way, the Hebrew language at that time did not have a word for "sphere," only for "circle.")......:loveliness:
"He spreads out the northern over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing" (Job 26:7, NIV)...........:loveliness:
Bible : 2 Quran : 0 wkk5159 posted on 22-5-2013 02:39 PM static/image/common/back.gif
Islamic version of earth;
Quran39:5 (sahih international)
....He wraps the night over the day and and wraps the day over the night...............http://mforum.cari.com.my/static/image/smiley/default/lol.gif
Christian version of earth;
"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth..." (Isaiah 40:22,NIV).(By the way, the Hebrew language at that time did not have a word for "sphere," only for "circle.")......http://mforum.cari.com.my/static/image/smiley/default/loveliness.gif
"He spreads out the northern over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing" (Job 26:7, NIV)...........http://mforum.cari.com.my/static/image/smiley/default/loveliness.gif
Bible : 2 Quran : 0
Ha ha , why are you trying to be so silly? Now its version of earth? Do you know what is 'definition' , 'description'? Ha ha , you are making christians appear bad. I thought your original argument is about the shape of the earth. When you've been buttkicked , it suddenly changed to version of earth. What next? Ha ha
The Quran describes the earth being a sphere whereas the bible 'die die' claim of flat earth. Hmm , I know - I know .... to you the earth is flat , yes? No wonder you keep on harping that the earth is 2 dimensional it being a circle. Ha ha ....the biblical God say so ...
Pssst .... don't forget about the 101 contradiction in the bible .... ha ha
Last edited by sam1528 on 22-5-2013 02:57 PM
and again. misinterpretation is the culprit for stupidity and ugliness of islam.:lol: ...especially when kitty-no-whiskies interpreter shows off his misinterpretation skills. :lol: wkk5159 posted on 21-5-2013 12:30 PM static/image/common/back.gif
Cool down, i just quoted a writing by an ex-muslim. There's no need for you to over react here.
...
Extensive research means NOTHING.
Those were just words. The Ex-Muslim you said qouted probably have never heard of Hinduism or Buddhism and could never imagine how a person can worship so many gods and goddesses or how a Monk can abandon everything in the World, take up a robe, walk barefoot in the street and beg for alms as part of Spiritual practise. All he knew is to pray 5 times a day, believing that could lead him to god or fix his problem.
http://cdn.ebaumsworld.com/picture/kahmikahze/IndianHumanGuidedMissile.jpg Last edited by Al-Patih on 14-6-2013 05:53 AM
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