The Father, the Son & the Holy Spirit
Saya nak sharing sedikit pendapat dan persoalan yg pernah diajukan pada saya oleh seorg rakan yg ingin tahu.Kita sering dengar perbincangan yg menyentuh soal holyspirit, tapi sejauh mana kita pernah memberi maklumat mengenainya pada mereka yg mungkin tak tahu atau yg mungkin tahu tapi lain daripada yg kita tahu.
Rakan kita juga ingin tahu apa peranan holyspirit yg membezakanya dengan Tuhan dan Jesus...
Soalan ke 3 (ia merujuk kepda yg Catholic) Adakah Holy Mery disembah?
Pendapat saya, begini...
Holyspirit Diturunkan pada Jesus ketika Dia dibaptiskan. Maka Roh kudus itu diam dalm dia sehingga di mati di kayu salib. Dalam lingkungan 40 hari selepas dia dibunuh, dia masih muncul menemui pengikutnya dalam pelbagai kejadian. Kemunculan bukan berbentuk roh (jelmaan) tapi jasad. Dia berjanji pada mereka bahawa dia akan menurunkan holyspirit bersama umatnya di dunia ini sampai ke akhir zaman.
Holy spirit bukan holy water atau holy Mary....
Holysprit (sering disimbulkan sebagai seekor merpati putih) sebagaiwali keajaiban dan kekuasaan Tuhan yg telah memiliki dan dimiliki dlm Jesus semasa hidupNya. Dahulu dia hadir dari Jesus sendiri tapi sekarang dia hadir bersama seluruh umatNya di seluruh dunia.
Soal Holy Mery,
Jawapan saya ringkas. Dia tidakdisembah, dia dihormati. Doa dipanjatkan melalui rasary bukan menyembah dia tapi sebagai makluk yg suci (ibu kepada Jesus) maka dia juga boleh mendoakan anda (yg percaya). Sedangkan kita(manusia) yg tidak suci (kudus)pun saling mendoakan satu sama yg lain. Rasary pada saya adalah satu pesanan pada Perawan Suci untk mendoakan saya (kita). Itu jerrrr..
Ini semua pendapat saya yg saya cernahkan sendiri dari apa yg saya dapat, tahu, faham, percaya dan amal (bukan amal sangatpun)....Yalah tiada kesempurnaan dalam kehidupan saya melainkan semuanya boleh diperbaiki dari masa ke semasa sapai ke akhir riwayat.
Dipersilakan forumner yg lain utk turut serta menyumbang apa yg kalian tahu dan percaya sebagai seorg kristian.
[ Last edited bycasejulia at 12-3-2008 03:58 PM ] Well, tiM, yes - the Holy Spirit is not holy water nor Mary. Holy water is water, Mary is Mary, the mother of Jesus. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God who came to us, and live among us today,after Jesus died, rose again and ascended up to heaven...
Pendapat saya, begini...
Holyspirit Diturunkan pada Jesus ketika Dia dibaptiskan. Maka Roh kudus itu diam dalm dia sehingga di mati di kayu salib. Dalam lingkungan 40 hari selepas dia dibunuh, dia masih muncul menemui pengikutnya dalam pelbagai kejadian. Kemunculan bukan berbentuk roh (jelmaan) tapi jasad. Dia berjandi pada mereka bahawa dia akan menurunkan holyspirit bersama umatnya di dunia ini sampai ke akhir zaman.
Well, to clarify this.. firstly, NO - the Holy Spirit is NOT the Spirit of God that LIVED in Jesus. The One who is living in the bodily form is Jesus is God - the Son. Not the Holy Spirit. It is the 2nd Person in the Trinity of God. (The Godhead consists of 3 Persons - the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. It is the Son who lives in the bodily form of Jesus.
But yes - the Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus when He was baptised. But this is only upon Jesus. The Holy Spirit did not come to His disciples or His followers yet at that time. But yes, Jesus did promise that He will send the Holy Spirit.. this is said in Matthew chapters 14 & 16.
Matthew 14:26
26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John 14:15-17
16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever;
17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
When did the Holy Spirit come to His disciples?
This is described in Acts chapter 2. The Holy Spirit came upon the disciples at Pentecost.
Acts 2:1-4
1And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
What about Christians today? Is the Holy Spirit still with Christians today?
This is how Christians receive the Holy Spirit:
Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
When werepent, and receive the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior, and have our sins forgiven..(in short, when we become Christians I agree that Holy Spirit is not God but It is from God.
"sebagaiwali keajaiban dan kekuasaan Tuhan yg telah memiliki dan dimiliki dlm Jesus semasa hidupNya"
Bukankah begitu??? On the "peranan" of the Holy Spirit.. let me first start wiht a summary of the Trinity of God. In short:
When we know God as God the Father - we see God as the God Almighty, all knowing, all loving,.. all things great and mighty
When we know God as God the Son - God is revealed to us through the Person of Jesus Christ. ie, we see God's love through Jesus when He walked on earth, and showed us how to live. and through His death, we understood the extent of God's love to us.
When we know God as Holy Spirit - we see the Spirit of God that fills our hearts, after we believe in the Lord Jesus. (ie, the Holy Spirit that guides us in God's truth and love). This is the Spirit of God who speaks to us, in our hearts and in our minds each and every day.. and this is the Spirit of God who gave us understanding of His Word, and helps us to know our Father and our Lord Jesus Christ today.
So what does the Holy Spirit do?
1) The Holy Spirit comes and lives in our hearts when we accept and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ as our Savior. The Spirit's dwelling in our hearts and in our lives isthe "mark" of our being born again as Christians..
Ephesians 1:13
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession梩o the praise of his glory.
2) The Holy Spirit teaches and testifies of Christ.
John 24:26
26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
3) The Spirit intercedes for us regarding the will of God.
Romans 8:27
27And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will.
4) The Holy Spirit convicts, and judges.
John 16:7-8
7But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.
8When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment
5) The Holy Spirit helps us in our weakness, and intercedes for us.
Romans 8:26
26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express.
6) The Holy Spirit gives joy
1 Thessalonians 1:6
6You became imitators of us and of the Lord; in spite of severe suffering, you welcomed the message with the joy given by the Holy Spirit.
7) The Holy Spirit determines which gift will be given to each of us.
1 Corinthians 12:8-11
To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,and to still another the interpretation of tongues.
11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.
8) The Holy Spirit forbids, or keeps people from doing certain things.
Acts 16:6
6Paul and his companions traveled throughout the region of Phrygia and Galatia, having been kept by the Holy Spirit from preaching the word in the province of Asia.
(ever hear that still small voice that speaks to you at certain times of your life?)
There may be more.. but these are what i can find so far... Originally posted by tiM at 5-8-2006 07:42 PM
I agree that Holy Spirit is not God but It is from God.
"sebagaiwali keajaiban dan kekuasaan Tuhan yg telah memiliki dan dimiliki dlm Jesus semasa hidupNya"
Bukankah begitu???
sorry? i don't get the question.. er.. what is wali?
kuasa? you mean, the Holy Spirit is just a "power" of God? That is what Truth.8 believes in.. but unfortunately, that is not what i agree with..
i believe that the Holy Spirit is God.. just as the Father is, and just as Christ Jesus is..
[ Last edited bysparrow at 5-8-2006 07:49 PM ] Ooooooh ya!?
Wali ialah penghubung atau peranta yg mempunyai kuasa mutlak.
Power from God not power of God.... ia entiti berlainan.
Contohnya beginilah.
tiM terdiri dari 3 entiti fungsi.
1 Akal(otak).
2. Jasad
3. Jiwa (roh).
Tafsiran sekatat ini terhadap fitrah, tiM merujuk pada Jasad. Tapi sains sedang berusaha utk menyimpan otak utk dibangunkan dalam jasad yg lain di lain hari... Itu mungkin? tak taulah saya. Ok! Akal juga tiM yg boleh berkerja sama dengan Jiwa hadir di alam maya ni(forum ni lah)....
boleh ikut....? Originally posted by tiM at 5-8-2006 07:42 PM
I agree that Holy Spirit is not God but It is from God.
"sebagaiwali keajaiban dan kekuasaan Tuhan yg telah memiliki dan dimiliki dlm Jesus semasa hidupNya"
Bukankah begitu???
hm.. i'm not sure if i understand you correctly.. but my understanding of the Holy Spirit is that, He is God. The Holy Spirit of God who dwells in us today.. and yes, when Jesus lived on earth, He was with, and dwells in Jesus too..
The Holy Spirit is not just a power.. (ie, He is not an impersonal "power" or substance.) The Holy Spirit IS fully God.. but a separate distinct Person and function from the Father..
The Bible teaches that He is a real Person, just as same as the Father and the Son are..
Jesus said in John 16:13
"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak; and he will show you things to come"
[ Last edited bysparrow at 5-8-2006 10:13 PM ] Originally posted by tiM at 5-8-2006 08:04 PM
Contohnya beginilah.
tiM terdiri dari 3 entiti fungsi.
1 Akal(otak).
2. Jasad
3. Jiwa (roh).
About the composition of our human nature - i also only half agree with you on this. The human being is not mind, body and spirit. It is soul, body and spirit.
You are not: roh (spirit), akal (mind) and jasad (body)
You are : roh (spirit), jiwa (soul) and jasad (body)
Roh and jiwa are two different things. Roh is your spirit - the one that will go to heaven when you die. Jiwa (soul) is just the life in you.. and this will cease once you die. I don't think there is any possibility of preserving that no matter how great science is.
The mind or akal - it is part of the jasad (as an organ) but it is the jiwa that enables it to function..
1 Tesalonika:23
Semoga Allah damai sejahtera menguduskan kamu seluruhnya dan semoga roh, jiwa dan tubuhmu terpelihara sempurna dengan tak bercacat pada kedatangan Yesus Kristus, Tuhan kita.
I Thessalonians 5:23.
"May the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be kept sound and blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."
about spirit, soul and body, here's a helpful link for you:
http://www1.itech.net/~ydl/BODY_SOUL_SPIRIT.htm
[ Last edited bysparrow at 5-8-2006 10:13 PM ] Originally posted by tiM at 5-8-2006 06:55 PM
Saya nak sharing sedikit pendapat dan persoalan yg pernah diajukan pada saya oleh seorg rakan yg ingin tahu.
Kita sering dengar perbincangan yg menyentuh soal holyspirit, tapi sejauh mana kita pe ...
Sorry tim..not able to share here..already deleted by the moderator...It's best if this thread is removed to the RSF... Originally posted by eastrun at 6-8-2006 12:09 PM
Sorry tim..not able to share here..already deleted by the moderator...It's best if this thread is removed to the RSF...
why does this thread needs to be removed to the RSF? tiM is seeking answers about the Holy Spirit and Mary as a Christian.. i don't think he's seeking for "malaikat Jibrail" here...
But tiM is a pretty understanding and fair guy.. he created a separate thread for you to share your views - the enstrum one.. that one is for you... :)
By tiM:
Dipersilakan forumner yg lain utk turut serta menyumbang apa yg kalian tahu dan percaya sebagai seorg kristian. Originally posted by eastrun at 6-8-2006 11:09 AM
Sorry tim..not able to share here..already deleted by the moderator...It's best if this thread is removed to the RSF...
Satu lagi pelajaran baru buat saudaraku eastrum... Bukan semua isu yg dibincangkan kita boleh participate. Jangan pulak membuat andaian rambang bahawa Mod di sini macam mod si M&M yg mana sentiasa tidak beri peluang pada org yg tidak sependapat dengan mereka. Saya percaya Mod di sini tidak delete posting anda tapi saya yg asingkan ruang utk anda menyumbangkan dari persepsi islam (itupun versi anda sahaja). Apapun kalau Mod raya ia tidak sesuai, topik itu boleh dibuang. Kerana iapun bukan perbincangan yg perlu, cuma atas dasar prehatin saya.:nyorok:
[ Last edited bytiM at 6-8-2006 03:12 PM ] Originally posted by tiM at 5-8-2006 06:55 PM
Soal Holy Mery,
Jawapan saya ringkas. Dia tidakdisembah, dia dihormati. Doa dipanjatkan melalui rasary bukan menyembah dia tapi sebagai makluk yg suci (ibu kepada Jesus) maka dia juga boleh mendoakan anda (yg percaya). Sedangkan kita(manusia) yg tidak suci (kudus)pun saling mendoakan satu sama yg lain. Rasary pada saya adalah satu pesanan pada Perawan Suci untk mendoakan saya (kita). Itu jerrrr..
I hope this will answer the question that some of our moslem friend has been asking us.. it's sad to know too that some of them still insist that we (to a chatolic) worship mother mary and not Jesus.. but the truth is holy mary is to be honoured not to be worshipped..
God bless! OK...
Let me post the oregional PM..
Original Message: Tutup kedai
well,i've read some posts made by muslims (i assume) in CC, i'm sad that it contain some 'assault' intention. this kind of posts should be just ignored. i agree this post should be thrashed.
u are christian right? coz i got some very basic question for u...
what is the holy spirit? is it other name for God? do u worship holy mary too?
im afraid this questions are too basic to be discussed in CC.:hmm:
Mungkin ia boleh menterjemahkan keinginan saudara kita ini utk dibincangkan?
[ Last edited bytiM at 8-8-2006 08:06 PM ] :)
that quote is from me. thanks tim for bring up this question for me.
i accept your answer about mary that she is respected not worshipped.
about the trinity: the Father, the Son, and holy spirit...all these are gods? the father god is the almighty god in the religion, right? why do i see more jesus everywhere than the father god? which one is superior? or maybe someone can elaborate on why christians talk about jesus more than the almighty god. and is holy spirit is one of god's creation or a form of god that form the three entity?
and one small question: what is baptism? i think it's a ceremony involving some water.. maybe it is easier to understand the Trinity in this way. lets takewater as an example. water(H20), exists in 3 forms, solid(ice), liquid(water) and gas(water vapour). so, God exists in these three forms. why? i dunno. God's ways are beyond human understandings, His ways are too great for our feeble mind. Originally posted by X45 at 12-8-2006 23:31
and one small question: what is baptism? i think it's a ceremony involving some water.....
there is 2 category of baptism:
1. water baptism by full immersion
-to baptise a person in water literally means to put that person wholly under the water.
-Water baptism for the symbolises and appropriates our death, burial and resurrection with Christ. It means identification with Christ.
-Water baptism for also means that we have died to the world, that we belong to God, that we put away the things of the old life, and that we have a new life from God
2. baptism of the Holy Spirit
-Holy Spirit baptism is a gift from God
-one receives the baptism of the Holy Spirit, there is an utterance by the Spirit, and an expression is made in an unknown tongue
-the baptism of the Holy Spirit may come upon you as you worship and praise God
-the Holy Spirit will enable you to become a strong witness and allow you to perform signs and wonders
-Holy Spirit give the power in understanding the Word and power to overcome sin Originally posted by Marsyal Yau at 13-8-2006 11:26 PM http://malay.cari.com.my/images/common/back.gif
maybe it is easier to understand the Trinity in this way. lets takewater as an example. water(H20), exists in 3 forms, solid(ice), liquid(water) and gas(water vapour). so, God exists in these t ...
It's not an easy to describe Almighty on that way... that's the differences between Islam and Christian, Islam mempunyai penerangan yang terang dan jelas tentang ketuhanan, baik dari sifat-sifatNya, ciri-ciriNya serta hukum-hukumNya.. that's why Islam muncul selepas Kristian... sesuatu yang telah dirancang oleh Allah Almighty.... Allah mencipta segalanya dari tiada kepada ada... sebelum, semasa dan yang akan datang.. semuanya telah dicipta olehNya.. termasuk apa yang sedang berlaku sekarang.. tidak seperti manusia dan ciptaan mereka.. sentiasa akan ada pembaharuan kerana manusia itu sendiri adalah perkara yang baru dan berubah-ubah.. kitab-kitab dan agama-agama yang diturunkan dari langit telah lengkap... tidak akan ada lagi kitab selepas Al-Quran melainkan kitab-kitab ciptaan manusia yang jahil..
Mari kita renungkan kembali sejarah penurunan wahyu (Ilmu) dari Allah Almighty... dari kitab Taurat.......hingga Al-Quran... banyak persamaan isi kandungan terutamanya dari kisah-kisah nabi terdahulu... manusia itu makhluk yang lemah.. perlu bimbingan.. sebab itu.. kitab-kitab suci diturunkan berperingkat-peringkat...
Jika ada forumer yang boleh bentang dan terangkan sifat-sifat dan ciri-ciri Tuhan kepada saya (Mengikut tafsiran Kristian).. saya alu-alukan..:victory: IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT
HERE I AM AGAIN TO SHARE 揟HE TRUTH OF GOD LOVE擺/color]
Originally posted by alhaj72 at 7-3-2008 10:04 AM http://forum.cari.com.my/images/common/back.gif
It's not an easy to describe Almighty on that way... that's the differences between Islam and Christian, Islam mempunyai penerangan yang terang dan jelas tentang ketuhanan, baik dari sifat-si ...
Dear Friends,
Thanks to our friend alhaj72, for his wonderful question, which also very importance to all of us. Hoping that this explanations will give him better understand of WHAT WE CHRISTAIN BELIEVE.
This is the most importance mystery which every Christian must know; the most profound of all mysteries is the MYSTERY OF TRINITY.
The Church teaches us that although there is only ONE GOD, yet, somehow, there is THREE PERSONS IN GOD. THE FATHER IS GOD, THE SON IS GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT IS GOD, yet we do not speak of three Gods, but only ONE GOD. They have the same nature, substance, and being.
We came to know this immense mystery because CHRIST revealed it to us. Just before ascending HE told them: "GO TEACHES ALL NATION, BAPTIZING THEM IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT Just to share something about the Trinity from some articles i read.
The Bible revealed that God is love. If God is alone, one person, then before the He created beings, who does He loves??? That does not make sense.Therefore, God must be existing in more then one person(which is 3) constantly showing love by loving each other. The Father loves The Son, The Son loves the Holy Spirit, .... etc.
[ Last edited byShwein1990 at 10-3-2008 03:02 PM ]
Reply #18 wattttb's post
The two doctrines of the TRINITY and the INCARNATION are the foundation of Christian life and worship. By becoming MAN, GOD THE SON offered us a share in the inner life of the TRINITY. By grace, we are brought into the perfect communion OF LIFE AND LOVE WHICH IS GOD, FATHER, SON, AND HOLY SPIRIT.Actually Wattttb, it's not too mysterious to me... I can easily understand the Trinity... it's just funny to me that GOD has a son.. and His son has a mother... totally human being type.. and again and again I'm saying that human is weak...
It's an insult for me if they said GOD like that... HE is a Creator.. He can create anything.. HE created Adam (1st man) and Hawa (1st woman).. but did somebody told us that Adam and Hawa is GOD son and daughter?? They are creation of ALLAH S.W.T... same with other things... Allah S.W.T created an angel, but what we know about an angel.. they are ALLAH S.W.T servant...
Incarnation huh... to a Human being formed... what a ridiculous... why incarnate onto Jesus (Isa), why not onto Adam (1st man), Daud, Musa and Muhammad S.A.W.. they are also a holy prophet.. Musa and Daud have the Kitab first then Jesus (Isa)... why..why..why..
You know how to create a bridge for Human and GOD? Simple.. just pray a correct way.. but don't thing that your prays will always be accepted by GOD.... apatah lagi kalau dah jadi syirik.. iaitu menduakan ALLAH S.W.T.. menyamakanNya dengan makhluk yang lemah.... Nauzubillahuminzalik...